Last post on Nov 07, 2013 at 6:19 AM
You are in the Vans & Minivans
What is this discussion about?
Honda Odyssey, Toyota Corolla, Chrysler Town and Country, Car Buying, Car Comparisons, Van
#25 of 51 Re: Drove them again [marine2]
Apr 08, 2013 (12:02 pm)
Well resale value is very real. And while you may not care, most people do (and should). Case in point with my 2006 Odyssey I sold. I shopped heavily back in 2006 and the Town and Country Touring model and Odyssey EX-L were considered (along with the Sienna XLE). Price wise, my Honda cost about $2200 more than the similarly equipped T&C Touring model (the Sienna was within about $1K of the Honda).
Here are the trade in value for a 2006 Odyssey EX-L vs a 2006 T&C Touring:
2006 Odyssey EX-L w/65000 miles = $13,400
2006 T&C Touring w/65000 miles = $7400
I got these numbers via kbb.com with a "good" trade in condition for both. Pretty big difference in price there, and you can see the Honda holds their value much better over time and you make up the savings when you buy at resale. Honda comes out even further ahead if you sell privately. Reliability is a factor, but all those fleet sales on the Chrysler and Dodge vans (about 60% of their sales are fleet) are the killer. It pulls the value drastically down.
If you keep your vehicles for 12+ years, probably does not matter as much. If you are like me and keep them 5-9 years or less, the resale value is not something to overlook.
As for acceleration, you are correct that the T&C and Caravan has the terrific Pentastar engine, that has more output than the Honda or Toyota vans, but the problem is their transmission is not as efficient with shift ratios. Per Edmunds:
"In Edmunds testing, the Town & Country accelerated from zero to 60 mph in 8.3 seconds, about a half-second slower than the Honda Odyssey and Toyota Sienna."
The Odyssey also gets better MPG. So quicker, and better gas mileage
If you are someone that constantly is hauling things and needs to take out the second row seats, stow and go system is a big plus for Dodge/Chrysler, IMHO. But, again, there are trade-offs. You lose a third seat in the second row (Toyota and Honda can seat up to 8 adults, Chrysler and Dodge 7) and another drawback is the 2nd row seats are not as comfortable as the Honda or Toyota because they are thinner to support stow and go. Since I might remove the second row seats from my minivan to haul things maybe 3 times a year tops, I would prefer the more comfortable seats and the option to seat 8. With three young kids and hauling friends and neighbors that extra seat gets more use for me than stow and go would. Trade-offs.
One trade-off my wife refused to make was safety ratings, and the Odyssey got a better overall score than any other minivan out there.
Chrysler definitely made some big improvements starting in 2011, but so did the other players.
Buy what fits your needs and makes the most sense.
#26 of 51 Re: Drove them again [dc_driver]
Apr 08, 2013 (1:25 pm)
Honda cars are a piece of junk.A neighbor's 2002 Honda Odyssey with around 150,000 kms (93750 mi) on it had been repaired to a transmission repair shop in 2009 for a failed transmission that cost him around $ 4000.Now it has a leaking engine that's causing him problem in his driveway due the unpleasant sight it brings to his property.On the other hand,i have an 8 seater 2001 Pontiac Montana SE EXT that i'm still driving during winter time with around 250000 km (156,250 mi) on it and with the same never been repaired 3.4 lit engine and auto-transmission...and one thing more it all passed all the emission tests required for insurance renewal without changing or fixing anything.My other newer minivan a Chrysler 2011 Touring now at 45000 km(28,125) is still doing great and doesn't gave me any problems at all.I hope i can keep this van for another 10 years like the Montana. Just like anybody i'm not going any younger.
#27 of 51 More to safety than stars,
Apr 08, 2013 (3:24 pm)
although the Chrysler has 4 and 5 star rating in crash tests. I was backing out of my driveway this morning in my 5 day old new mini van and using my on screen video of what's behind me. Next thing I hear a peping sound and then see a car go by. I soon discovered my van will also tell me when cars are going to go pass me when backing up. A great feature, especially if in a parking lot and another high vehicle is parked next to you, blocking your vision. I was also going to put on some spot mirrors like I had on the old Dodge to catch anyone in my blind spot when changing lanes. But discovered that Chrysler has that problem solved too. Built into the side mirrors, a light comes on, on a piece in the mirror anytime a car comes into my blind spot. It can also warn you with a bep. Another great safety feature.
But I'm sure much has to do with how you use your mini van. If it's mostly a people hauler, with the softer 2nd and 3rd row seats, Honda or Toyota would be better. Also if you some times need the eighth seat and will trade it in earlier. All good reasons to buy either of those mini vans. My needs are just the opposit. There is only my wife and I. Some times we carry the kids and grand kids or friends. Never needed eight seats. I do haul a lot moving family and could get more in my Dodge van than I could in my old pickup truck.(I could stack things higher.) When my brother and I drove back to Ohio from Phoenix, I stowed one second and third row seat and put down a air matteress and one would take turns sleeping while the other drove. When My Mom and Sister needed electric carts to get around, like Park and Swap, I bought a metal ramp and was able to get two at once into my van. I delivered my own hot water tank and installed it. Same with a new dishwasher. Saving a $60.00 delivery fee on both. I got a 4x8 sheet of plywood in it to fix some siding on my shed. Took an old refrigerator to the recycle station. So you see, stow and go is important to me. But I wanted a mini van that also looked nice and had all the goodies I never had before, like back up camera, DVD, radio with a screen and hard drive. I loaded up all my music CD's and loaded them up on it and put the CD's back in the house. Remote start, auto headlights and windshield wipers, etc. etc. and the new 5th generation Chrysler fits that bill perfectly. The inside is beautiful. I just have to be more carefull now what I haul and cover it real good. Didn't worry that much about it with the 2005 Dodge GC. Not much to hurt in that one and it was far from pretty in the inside. Not so with this Chrysler Town and Country. I finally got my cake and can eat it to. I'm a happy man.
#29 of 51 Re: Drove them again [jimboy2]
Apr 15, 2013 (4:17 am)
(Regarding Hondas) In addition to reading all of the horror stories about Chrysler minivan brakes, the Odyssey is also prone to serious brake issues. TownHall Odyssey forum-brakes We all have our own opinions about this. I can't help but wonder if a lot of the brake issues on minivans of all makes has to do with driving habits. In the case of the 4,400 pound 5th generation Chrysler minivans, my wife and I leave a lot of room between our Town & Country and the vehicle ahead, and then brake gently when needed. But I've been a passenger with friends who like to follow closely and brake hard all the time. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out why they have to replace their brakes so often.
#30 of 51 Re: Drove them again [tsu670]
Apr 15, 2013 (3:41 pm)
My father in law is like that,. He keeps his foot on the gas up until the last 25 or so feet. I play the lights. I'm looking at them a block away and trying to adjust my speed as to making it or having to stop. I may coast a half a block or more. But not enough to back up trafic. If it's a trip light, I'll speed up so I can get on the trip before it turns read with the last car moving off it. You can save brakes and gas by the way you drive.
#31 of 51 Latest Odyssey recall
Apr 23, 2013 (5:16 am)
According to NY Times article 04/19/2013 at 1:47pm, Honda is recalling 59,000 2012-13 Odysseys to fix issue where the automatic transmission can be shifted out of park without depressing the brake pedal. Also included are 128,000 2012-13 CRVs and 17,500 2013 Acura RDXs.
#32 of 51 Re: Latest Odyssey recall [tsu670]
Apr 23, 2013 (7:39 am)
That news in not new. Honda cars are a piece of junk and just wondering why they keep on soaring in sales,is it because of their modern and sleek design
and buyers just forgot about quality and reliabilty concerns.A neighbour of mine had a 2002 honda odyssey and having transmission problem at around 150,000 kms (93,750 miles) that cost him around $4000 for the repair done in 2009.Now it's the engine that's leaking in his driveway and to add to that the almost every year brake problems.
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Apr 25, 2013 (9:20 am)
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#34 of 51 Re: Drove them again [dc_driver]
May 12, 2013 (9:53 am)
You'd be well advised not to try and outrun any of the 2011 and up Chrysler minivans with either a Honda or a Toyota. You'd lose!
I don't know where Edmunds got their acceleration times for the Chrysler minivans, but it's obvious they never actually drove one! The 3.6 engine with the six-speed trans will run away from any other minivan out there. I've got a neighbor with a new, 2013 Toyota..., and it's nice..., but very 'plasticky', (to coin a word), all over the inside. I will admit it may be a touch quieter, but it has more wind noise than my Chrysler and my brothers 2012 Honda Odyssey that he used to brag about doesn't seem so quick to him anymore, and he does have the one with the six-speed trans.!
It's not that any of these three vehicles, or the others from Nissan and a couple of others that don't come to mind, are 'sport sedans', but they are far better than most people realize. Back when I was a lot younger, I used to race an A Production Corvette in the SCCA..., so I DO know what I'm talking about.
As for resale value..., yes it is less, but you also pay much less for a vehicle with the same or better content than the Honda and Toyota that some of the 'consumer magazines' just love to rave about!
Fiat just announced a new engine for their Maserati line..., a 3.2 liter V-6 that puts out over 410 HP. It's based on the Chrysler Pentastar!