Last post on Nov 29, 2013 at 10:19 AM
You are in the Ford Escape
What is this discussion about?
Ford Escape, Fuel Efficiency (MPG), SUV
Please note the engine, AWD/FWD, type of gas you buy, and something about the type of driver you are and your driving conditions (city/highway, commuting) when you post about your mileage.
#474 of 626 Re: Rubbish [mbb21]
Mar 27, 2013 (11:51 am)
" ...So, does Ford deliver what it says? In a way, yes, but the way you have to drive the car in order to make the numbers sure takes away from the fun that driving this vehicle brings when you step on it. I guess we canít have the best of all worlds in one package just yet. ..."
Ford had the best of both. The Escape Hybrid 2005-2012 has both power and excellent fuel economy (especially city). It was more expensive on the initial purchase, but other than that it is a great vehicle.
I suppose Ford could have put a hybrid option in the 2013, but I suspect they chose to use the batteries for the C-max.
#475 of 626 Re: 2013 Ford Escape Titanium 2.0 AWD: No Eco in my Ecoboost [woodinva]
Mar 27, 2013 (6:39 pm)
well sorry to inform you but the EPA does not use 100% gasoline when they do there testing they use a liquid called indolene. cause it has a research octane of 96.5 and if you do the math for research octane + motor octane divided by 2 it has a octane rating of 92.25.
Also just about every grade of octane gas on the market contains 10% ethanol unless the gas retailer chooses not to include it in the formula with the other fuel additives.
#476 of 626 Re: 2013 Ford Escape Titanium 2.0 AWD: No Eco in my Ecoboost [evorkerr]
Mar 27, 2013 (7:54 pm)
evorkerr; You are right, the EPA does use indolene, but that is just a name that they give their specially made test gasoline that contains no additives. So loosely, it could be called 100% "gasoline", especially when it is compared to what we get at the pumps. Yes, it does have a pump octane number around 92.
I think the reason for the discussion, is to understand that the EPA uses one type of fuel for their testing (as would Ford, and then it goes on the window sticker) and we need to use something different. Perhaps these Ecoboosts are more sensitive to fuel additives, such as Ethanol. We here on the forum don't know for sure, but it is a discussion point. With some owners seeing very good mileage and others are struggling, despite their best efforts, MAYBE fuel is playing a partial role in this. I have the luxury of finding pretty much any kind of fuel I want to where I live, so I am doing my own tests to see if I can add anything on that front.
I have started testing the fuel at my local stations, just so i know what I am putting in the tank.
When the sticker at the pump says that the fuel "may contain up to 10% Ethanol" then it would be good to know. Is it 0%, or 10% or ???
The numbers can sometimes fluctuate depending on the season, the region, the availability etc.
If in fact, some Ecoboost owners are suffering because of what fuel is available locally, then Ford can't control that. That becomes an EPA test standards issue. Ford needs to follow EPA rules which call out indolene as the test fuel.
Hopefully we will figure it out.
If the fuel and its additives make little to no difference, then this whole conversation becomes a moot point.
Mar 28, 2013 (8:50 am)
"Ford Motor Co. global marketing chief Jim Farley on Wednesday said the auto maker will pay up to $50,000 in prize money for the best mobile or Internet applications that help drivers track their vehicle's fuel-economy and encourage them to share fuel-savings tips.
The auto maker's move comes on the heels of a rash of complaints that some of its vehicles don't deliver the mileage promised by the tests dictated by the federal government. A Department of Energy run website, fueleconomy.gov, lets drivers submit real-world mileage, but contributions are voluntary.
Ford isn't alone in its frustration over the variation between real-world fuel efficiency, rival manufacturers' testing and the Environmental Protection Agency estimates that companies are compelled to cite in their advertising."
Car Makers Try to Tackle Inaccuracies Measuring MPG (WSJ)
#478 of 626 Re: Rubbish [gimmestdtranny]
Mar 28, 2013 (11:24 am)
Very good information indeed! I assume such a gauge cannot be installed by a layman. Is there a recommended one? Just trying to understand the cost/effort involved to get this setup if I want to.
#479 of 626 Re: Rubbish [ghanshyam]
Mar 28, 2013 (12:57 pm)
While not automated, there are a number of gauges that are commercially available. I use a ScanGuage 2 for my hybrid.
The Ford initiative is intended to create a phone app that would actually interpret the data that is read by a device like a SG2.
#480 of 626 Re: Rubbish [ghanshyam]
Mar 28, 2013 (1:14 pm)
Well, I'm sorta old school. I recommend reading the posts since yours and mine..see automelon's posts for sure about using electronics now to sorta accomplish what the mechanical gauge does and more. He used an App combined with a smart phone and some Wifi wireless tech that plugs into, I think, the OBDII port on your car. The costs of about 100. if you already have a smartphone or iPad 9 (I don't) are about the same as the one mechanical gauge and might be probably a little tidier..certainly an easier install and seems to have a LOT more (instant apparently) info besides vacuum. I am very tempted to get one of what he has myself, except that I don't have the other electronics that most people do so for me it is a lot more expensive proposition. If you too tho, don't have the latest electro stuff that the vast majority of Americans seem to have on the street, then just ask at your local Indy shop for a quote to install a simple vacuum gauge. Hopefully there are some nice small ones available that you can tuck outta the way and not look too outta place, yet easy to see at a glance. My old gauge came out of an old RV and it's the size of a softball..so I have never installed it in my CRV, but then I do sorta know my car quite well and how to exploit whatever FE it will give me. It too is not great...I just checked it the other day while updating my records and see that my overall average over 12000 miles and 5 years worth of 4 seasons each year (in temps of -35ľF to 98+) is 29.73 miles/Imp gal..so only 24.77 mi/US gal. IOW's..not very good considering how I drive it. I drive quite gentle on a 50 mph 2 lane road into town once a month, 16 miles one way and a few miles of stoplights in town. Occasionally I do freeway work and down into Toronto. Usually set the cruise on those trips at anywhere from 60 to 65 mph. Always use A/C in the summer, June to Sept, and always use and need the AWD capability in the winter. Sometimes I tow a small trailer with lumber or whatever..always under 1000 lb.
Also in the summer i (usually daily) drive on a trip that is 6 miles one way..very hilly terrain..so only less than 10 min trip on a 35 mph road, but at least in summer temps car gets right up to temp after only 1 mile. Car is a manual tranny too, and while one aspect of it having fewer parasitic losses than the auto, it also has a lot lower final drive gearing so way higher rpm's than your Escapes here on the forum. As an example, here are some rpm/speeds:
2000 rpm = 43.4 mph (70 kph)
2250 = 50 (80)
2500 = 55 (90)
2750 = 60 (96.6)
2800 = 62.14 (100)
3000 = 65.2 mph (105kph)
I think 75 mph is around 3500 to 3600 revs, if i recall.
Note that my usual speed is always under 60 mph and most commonly is 50 - 55. See my rpms at 50?
You guys in the Escape are probably doing 65 - 70 mph at 2250 or so..
So that has pulled my average down quite a bit.
I always air my tires at about 30-32 fr and rr. OEM says 26 psi fr and rr for a soft ride. I'd rather have the fuel mileage.
Most of trips are quite long..as in not just to the corner store, so my warmups during winter get a full warm up. I am a retired heavy truck driver so I know how to drive to get fuel economy and have lived with having to be patient in traffic and anticipate lights and other traffic around me for quite a few million miles. Sometimes I do really let the CRV rip on a pretty quiet back road and get quite aggressive with it. Burning the carbon off if you like. Sometimes I let it idle to warm up in the winter if there is a half inch of sleet rather than chop away at the windshield. I also will idle it with A/C on in town if need be while I am doing paperwork if I have to. IOW's, my average above is very real-world, but with a distinct bias towards pretty gentle, smooth driving with light progressive tranny shifts and rarely a quick start from stop. Most times I do not have a trailer of course, and rarely have a passenger unless the GF goes with me in my car when we go out, but usually take hers. I do have about 100-150 lb of tools in the car always though, so sort of like having a driver and one passenger with nothing else but a spare tire in it.
I have kept records like this for basically most of vehicles including my bikes (I actually do more miles in a year on the bike than the car) hence the low 12000 miles in 5 years driving above).
When I see fuel miles per gallon average..it just doesn't get any better than than your average in over years and years and seasons and seasons of use till you buy your next car.
For comparisons...but don't hold me to these numbers as I would have to check to be certain, but a couple random examples... FE (in Imperial so 20 % bigger than the US gallon) over life of ownership:
05 CRV AWD stick - 29.73 so far..(24.77 mi/US gal)
87 Pathfinder - an E model, with the very very rare 4 cylinder stick, 4x4 of course but no A/C - 24.3 mpg
03 Matrix AWD 1.8 4 cyl/auto - 33.7 mpg - what a pig on fuel they are when you go AWD..terrible gearing for the size engine, and restrictive exhaust routing etc on the Corolla 1.8 litre which always left the car feeling strangulated.
What I have found over the years, is it is important to fine the sweet spot, with your car. Where I live, the sweet spot will often render you a ticket so you putt around knowing that maybe 5 -10 more mph might give you better mpg but not worth the ticket.
The sweet spot will involve your torque output and hp and gearing, combined with (for the most part) the vehicle load, which mostly includes passengers and/or A/C use. I find that with A/C on in the CRV and the way it is geared, it actually seems to get better mpg at 68 mph than at 55. it really depends on so many factors though.. If you drive 68 by yourself, you will not get as good as if you drive 68 in and around a number of big trucks beside you and whatnot. Their draft will pull you along a fair bit. I certainly am not advocating hanging around trucks..just saying that if your usual commute involves a bunch of tailgaters, but if they flow fairly smoothly for an hour at a time without much brake light use, your mileage could actually be better than if you were a lone car on the road fighting that headwind all on your own.
#481 of 626 Re: Ford is listening [steve_]
Mar 28, 2013 (2:32 pm)
Great info, this is what we need to move the needle of of complaints to solving the problem.............
#482 of 626 Re: Rubbish [ghanshyam]
Mar 28, 2013 (4:25 pm)
For the money, I would lean towards something electronic like the ultra-guage or DashCommand or the others that have been mentioned. The cost is similar if not even a bit lower for the electronic stuff and it gives you dozens of variables to look at instead of just one. Installation is as simple as plugging in a connector. I have removed the door that normally covers the OBDII port on my Escape, because I keep my reader plugged in all the time.
I can't speak for the ultra-guage, but for $60 or $70 it looks decent. Check for reviews on the web.
#483 of 626 Re: Rubbish [gimmestdtranny]
Mar 29, 2013 (5:02 pm)
Great information again! And yes, you do have lots of patience . I know I have missed lots of posts in between but I will try to look at some posts which you have indicated.
Yes the wifi based smartphone app seems promising. I will check it out.