Last post on Mar 04, 2013 at 4:01 PM
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Honda Accord, Toyota Camry, Nissan Altima
#1 of 13 Will Camry Retain The Mid-Size Sales Lead In '13?
Sep 24, 2012 (4:48 pm)
The 2013 Accord and Altima are fresher designs than the Camry (by one year). They also beat Camry in EPA numbers. Fusion and Malibu are also all-new for 2013, but they won't take the sales crown away from Camry. I'd put my money on the Accord, and look for Camry and Altima to be #2 and 3, respectively. How about you?
#2 of 13 Re: Will Camry Retain The Mid-Size Sales Lead In '13? [hpmctorque]
Sep 24, 2012 (6:30 pm)
I would say no if you are referring to consumer sales. The Toyota option packages offer the least value as many features offered on entry level Accords and Altimas are not offered on entry level Toyota packages. Some features aren't offered on Camry at all like Accord's side mirror camera and memory seats. Since Camry was a 2012 makeover, there will be less excitement over 2013. Camry's update was the most conservative of those cars redesigned in 2012 and 2013. Plus some may go for 2013 Ford Fusion and 2014 Mazda 6 also redesigned. Camry had much less competition in 2012 and still did not crush their competitors.
#3 of 13 Re: Will Camry Retain The Mid-Size Sales Lead In '13? [markitdown]
Sep 24, 2012 (6:47 pm)
I think the Camry will hang on just on momentum. It's been a long time since the Accord won the segment even when they had the better car.
OTOH the rise by the Altima is already showing that the "I always buy a (your car here)" crowd is shrinking more than ever.
Now if the Mazda takes it I'll faint.
#4 of 13 Re: Will Camry Retain The Mid-Size Sales Lead In '13? [fezo]
Sep 24, 2012 (6:55 pm)
Did not mean to insinuate that Mazda 6 would be a competitor for the top spot, but they will eat away at the Camry's numbers along with all the new models. Point being there are several redesigned models during the upcoming year, and Camry was one of few new cars in 2012. I realize Camry will not change much for 2013, but they may want to consider better packages of options to compete better with the new models that seem like a better value.
#5 of 13 Re: Will Camry Retain The Mid-Size Sales Lead In '13? [hpmctorque]
Sep 24, 2012 (8:08 pm)
If you are counting fleet sales and sales to rental car companies, I don't think the Camry can be beat in 2013. Toyota blows them out the door to keep that #1 spot. And their huuuuuge factory in my state of KY (I think it employs something like 7000 people) can make at full tilt 500,000 vehicles a year. Unless something happens to the economy, I think that factory will be going at full tilt in 2013. Now 50k of those cars will be Avalons, Venzas, etc, but I think a full 450,000 will be Camrys.
But just last month, in August, Honda sold more of the old 2012 model Accord to actual retail customers than Toyota sold Camrys to retail customers.
So on that measure, of real people rather than fleets or rental car companies, I think Honda has just regained the #1 spot and will keep it.
Honda's huge but not quite as huge Marysville OH plant can make something like 400,000 cars at full tilt. One Honda exec said something interesting recently. I don't have a link, but he said that if the demand was there for the Accord they would make it at another plant, or even import it from Japan again if they had to. Seems quite aggressive from the normally not quite as aggressive Honda, but I think they feel rightly that the 2013 Accord is a winner.
Anyway, here are my guesses for calendar year 2013:
Camry (retail and rental): c. 450k
Accord: c. 400k
Altima: c. 350k
Fusion: c. 300k
Sonata: c. 280k
Passat: c. 200k
I'm a big Honda fan, but I just don't think they can take number 1 next year. But 2014? Maybe. And if that's going to happen we should start to see the Accord pass the Camry in monthly sales about a year from now....
What could upset the applecart and put the Accord on top in 2013 is the new IIHS small offset crash test. This test is about to take place, and it seems like only Honda has actually designed its midsize car to pass. Not sure, but that could take the Camry down a notch, and it'll take Toyota at least a year to redesign and re-engineer the Camry to pass.... In the test at the link below several midsize premium cars fail ("the Lexus was the worst in our test" etc.). The only two to pass are the Volvo S60 and the Acura TL (based on the previous generation of Accord).
#6 of 13 Re: Will Camry Retain The Mid-Size Sales Lead In '13? [markitdown]
Sep 24, 2012 (7:10 pm)
The Mazda 6 is almost irrelevant in the midsize sales race. They'll be lucky to sell 50,000 in 2013. Even that would be a big increase over 2012. The new model looks sharp and gets good mpg, but is made in high cost Japan.
#7 of 13 Re: Will Camry Retain The Mid-Size Sales Lead In '13? [benjaminh]
Sep 24, 2012 (7:35 pm)
I don't see Honda taking number 1 because as you point out they don't have as much capacity. Also, I don't think the company has the financial position of Toyota to throw cash either. Finally, they do little fleet. However, as Nissan continues its expansion of facilities in the US and Mexico, I could see them Altima taking on Camry in a few years. Fusion won't take number 1, but Ford is adding capacity now that Mazda pulled out of Flat Rock, so they may get closer to Accord down the road (if the car doesn't have launch gremlins and pricing doesn't get out of whack). It should get interesting and with all the increasing competition it may be a boon for consumers.
#8 of 13 August sales, Camry vs. Accord
Sep 24, 2012 (8:25 pm)
Toyota Camry 36,720
Honda Accord 34,848
Surprisingly close. Honda was blowing the old 2012s out the door with big incentives, but to a substantial degree so was Toyota.
But Honda has had to slow production down as they shifted to producing the all new 2013 Accord. I don't think things will be this close again for a few months, at least. I'm not sure when Honda will be up to full production, but probably not until the first months of 2013. At that point, the real race begins.
#9 of 13 Re: Will Camry Retain The Mid-Size Sales Lead In '13? [berri]
Sep 25, 2012 (10:54 am)
Had another thought on this topic. More and more of the transplant production built here is being exported which means the plant with the highest output may not translate to US #1 vehicle sales depending on how the production is sold - domestic versus export.
#10 of 13 Re: Will Camry Retain The Mid-Size Sales Lead In '13? [berri]
Sep 29, 2012 (3:53 am)
The Toyota factory in Georgetown, KY, and the Honda factory in Marysville, OH, are actually closer in size and production capacity than I thought.
Toyota can make up to 500,000 vehicles a year in KY, probably 450,000 of those Camrys.
But Honda can make up to 440,000 vehicles at Marysville....And they can import from Japan or make at another US factory more Accords if the demand is there. In other words, it is possible for the Accord to pass the Camry in sales in 2013. It may be unlikely, but it is quite possible.
Here's the official Honda site on the Marysville factory, as well as a quote:
"....Originally building only Accords, the plant today is the sole global source of the Honda Accord Coupe, the Acura TL and the Acura RDX, while also building more than 90% of the Honda Accord Sedans sold in America. The plant is highly integrated with metal stamping, welding, painting, plastic injection molding and two final assembly lines under one roof.
Location: Marysville, Ohio
Started Production: November 1982
Plant Size: 3.6 million square feet
Capital Investment: $4 billion
Models in Production:
Acura TL Sedan
Annual Production Capacity: 440,000 vehicles"