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A Mechanic's Life - Tales From Under the Hood

2970 messages,  Last post on May 25, 2013 at 4:55 PM

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     This topic is primarily for professional mechanics, current or retired, or ardent amateurs who would like to share the suprises, victories, tricks and challenges of working on the modern automobile. All Forums members are invited, of course, to ask technicians about their work, or comment on your own experiences dealing with mechanics.
 
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Messages Page 5 of 297

#41 of 2970 Re: News to me! [isellhondas] by Mr_Shiftright HOST

Jun 19, 2012 (10:00 am)

Replying to: isellhondas (Jun 18, 2012 12:21 pm)
Oh yeah---I used to call them "poet-mechanics". superior to other men, never capable of making a mistake, and way smarter than factory engineers; also, too well-educated to change someone's oil or help taking out the trash.

#42 of 2970 Re: News to me! [Mr_Shiftright] by isellhondas

Jun 19, 2012 (2:10 pm)

Replying to: Mr_Shiftright (Jun 19, 2012 10:00 am)
And when it came right down to it, these guys usually weren't very good.
 
A lot of them would hide behind a huge toolbox loaded with 50,000 worth of tools.

#43 of 2970 Re: News to me! [isellhondas] by Mr_Shiftright HOST

Jun 19, 2012 (5:43 pm)

Replying to: isellhondas (Jun 19, 2012 2:10 pm)
The best sign you hired a good mechanic? COURAGE and CONFIDENCE !

#44 of 2970 So much for this thread being about our successes! by thecardoc3

Jun 20, 2012 (6:38 am)

I sat back and purposely avoided adding to this thread. For a thread that was intended to allow us to talk about the things we like and give us a chance to talk about the little victories that we have once in a while it's achieved only what I really expected from it.
 
If you want to question warranties and how they should be handled, then that should have gotten it's own thread. FWIW, We do 12MO/12,000MILE warranty partys and labor that is good nationwide. In fourteen years of doing business we have only had to help a customer out a couple of times. Then again by using the best quality replacement parts that we can aquire, warranty failures are so infrequent that it becomes practically a non issue, but we are there for our customers in the event something strange happens.
 
"isellhondas" You'd probably judge me as one of your prima donnas, but first you better put a 3 in front of how much money you think is inside my tool box, and I don't hide behind any of it.
 
This career has placed many very capable people into work enviroments where management is so clueless about how a repair event should take place that they hinder the technicians abilities to be productive and efficient. Worse than that, they fail to manage to an indviduals strengths, and all the while bemoaning someones weaknesses. I'll say right here with little reservation that this is done on purpose to keep the techs questioning themselves in order to deliberately keep wages as low as they possibly can and it's gone on for decades. Then you come across a technician with the skills, talent, and drive to rebut that broken system, and your only defence is to call them a prima donna. I had a very similar conversation with the son of another local shop that I handle all of the high tech stuff for. He was complaining about their techs productivity and how much he has to watch over everyone. (FWIW he would not be a capable technician himself yet and with mentoring would be some ten years from being that technician). But here he is in management solely based on who he is and not what he has done to get there. The short side of this is that none of their techs has attended any training in years. Unless the entire shop changes direction and starts making the investment required in their people, this owners son will be exactly who you are in another twenty years. He was blaming their techs, for his, and his fathers mishandling of the business. Yep, I'm the primma donna, I showed him exactly where the major problem lies. The techs need to improve, but it's the shops responsiblity to make that happen.
 
In this thread you can see comments about pricing, some positive, and some not. NOBODY on the outside knows what any shop should be charging, period.
 
You cannot say what price is "fair", there are way too many variables. The shop I mentioned above has made no investement to be prepared for the technology in today's cars so they are cheaper than me in an already greatly distressed economy. We on the other hand have and continue to prepare for what-ever might roll up to the door. Most peoples ambivolus perception of fair would punish us for doing that by going to the cheaper place first.
 
I've already spent too much time responding here and need to get busy. I'll pick off a few more of the errors in this thread but that's all I'll really get to do. I doubt anyone really cares about the nightmares we solve and someone is sure to try and bash us for achieving the capability that we bring to the table. Frankly, I don't think anyone is even reading this thread beyond the ones who have responded already.

#45 of 2970 Re: So much for this thread being about our successes! [thecardoc3] by steve_ HOST

Jun 20, 2012 (7:17 am)

Replying to: thecardoc3 (Jun 20, 2012 6:38 am)
NOBODY on the outside knows what any shop should be charging, period.
 
Lots of outfits report on what overhead costs are and what the typical profit margin is for various businesses. You may have to pay for some of that info, especially the more reliable info, but I can't think of any industry where it's not available.
 
One free site says a tech should be worth about $15k a month in labor and $18k a month in parts (gross) to a dealer. "Profit" on the labor can hit 70%, parts, 45%. Economies of scale, if nothing else, would whack those income numbers for an indy shop. Maybe Isell can relate those numbers to his real world experience back in the day when he managed a shop.
 
No one really cares though, so long as they get a good product or service and don't feel like they've been gouged.
 
Sounds like the Peter Principal is well established in your industry too.

#46 of 2970 Re: So much for this thread being about our successes! [thecardoc3] by Mr_Shiftright HOST

Jun 20, 2012 (8:00 am)

Replying to: thecardoc3 (Jun 20, 2012 6:38 am)
It's interesting how much you read into people's comments that I really don't see there at all. Well, we all have a view of the world that differs, that's true.
 
A "prima donna" in my opinion, is a non-performer, and a non-team player. It's the kind of person who costs more than they are worth. That's what the term means. I really don't think any truly capable technician would be branded thusly. It's not management who dislikes such a person--the rest of the line does, too.

#47 of 2970 Re: So much for this thread being about our successes! [steve_] by thecardoc3

Jun 20, 2012 (8:56 am)

Replying to: steve_ (Jun 20, 2012 7:17 am)
Lots of outfits report on what overhead costs are and what the typical profit margin is for various businesses. You may have to pay for some of that info, especially the more reliable info, but I can't think of any industry where it's not available.
 
Nobody has ever come by asking us for that information. One would think they need to do that in order to actually have it.
 
One free site says a tech should be worth about $15k a month in labor and $18k a month in parts (gross) to a dealer. "Profit" on the labor can hit 70%, parts, 45%. Economies of scale, if nothing else, would whack those income numbers for an indy shop. Maybe Isell can relate those numbers to his real world experience back in the day when he managed a shop.
 
If I was in a shop and being fed all of the gravy work, those numbers wouldn't be difficult to reach at all. But that's not what would happen. I'd actually get a steady diet of the most difficult situations. Few shops bill that work correctly, in fact it would be fair to say only a handful actually bill it correctly, while most simply blame the technician and try and force that stuff to be done faster than is really possible. The end result has all the appearance of a technician that is expensive to the shop per hour, and un-productive on the larger scale.
 
Steve, have you ever done piece work, which is what flat rate is, and had management tell you we need you to handle this problem car for us, but we cannot pay you for it because it's a comeback for the shop. "Here's some gravy work to make up the time"
 
When management resorts to that they are stealing from their best technician and that ultimnately leads to bad feelings and the eventual loss of the technician. Meanwhile management turns around and blames the technician exactly as isell described, without you seeing the whole story.
 
"No one really cares though, so long as they get a good product or service and don't feel like they've been gouged"
 
Charge correctly for the time that is often invested in the difficult diagnostics and the consumers do feel they may have been gouged. The result is the shops work under priced, and in turn fail to pay the techs properly, invest in more schooling, and tooling and the whole race to the bottom picks up a little more momentum.
 
BTW 33K a month? Gravy work again very easy to do. Try doing the really high tech stuff and you'll see why my shop averages 200K a year, gross, and it's not uncommon to be insulted for trying.

#48 of 2970 Re: So much for this thread being about our successes! [thecardoc3] by steve_ HOST

Jun 20, 2012 (10:08 am)

Replying to: thecardoc3 (Jun 20, 2012 8:56 am)
have you ever done piece work
 
Sort of - bid an individual job, do the work and then get stiffed by the client. Happened a few times. And lots of time I've had to do way more work on a job than I could justify billing for. Kind of goes with the territory in lots of jobs, in spite of your best efforts.
 
My limited experience with a great mechanic was a older shop owner three decades ago in Haines Jct. YK. My old wagon wasn't shifting higher than 2nd gear on the last leg of a long road trip. His tech told me the transmission was shot but his boss could look at it the next day. So we hit the motel next door that was also owned by this guy.
 
The shop owner looked at our car that evening and slept on it. The next day he figured out that the engine compression was so low that there wasn't enough vacuum being created to shift the transmission. (Something like that - details are getting fuzzy). Anyway, he did something simple like advance the timing and we got the last 600 miles home fine.
 
All that and the bill, including the motel, was less than $150. Between fiddling around and a couple of road tests, I'm sure the mechanic spent 3 hours dinking with it.

#49 of 2970 Re: So much for this thread being about our successes! [steve_] by qbrozen

Jun 20, 2012 (10:18 am)

Replying to: steve_ (Jun 20, 2012 7:17 am)
One free site says a tech should be worth about $15k a month in labor and $18k a month in parts (gross) to a dealer. "Profit" on the labor can hit 70%, parts, 45%.
 
You realize that, taken at face value, that's $4500 gross pay to the mechanic, but that's hardly the end of it. Is that why you put profit in quotes? If that 70% really is supposed to be profit, I think that's something more like $3k pay to the mechanic, best case scenario. I think only entry-level Jiffy Lube guys make that little.
 
In other words, I'm not buying those numbers. The profit has to be WAY lower than 70%.

#50 of 2970 Re: So much for this thread being about our successes! [Mr_Shiftright] by isellhondas

Jun 20, 2012 (10:18 am)

Replying to: Mr_Shiftright (Jun 20, 2012 8:00 am)
Thank you for explaining what my own defination of a "Prima Donna" would be.
 
I think that poster thinks I am against him and quite the opposite is true.
 
" Gravy" jobs are often given to the least capable guys in a shop while the skilled people are often given the hard to diagnose, miserable jobs that are near impossible to make money doing.
 
And, the so called gravy jobs as I understand things are becoming fewer and fewer to find.
 
Flat rate books get adjusted as talented people figure out ways to "beat the clock" and actually make good money. Often this requires the purchase of some expensive tools.
 
There is a huge difference between being able to beat the clock by being smart and doing sloppy work and cutting corners.
 
It's not easy today keeping up with the fast changing technology. I am well aware of that and I have nothing but respect for the hard working people that stick with it. A lot of good people have left the trade.

Messages Page 5 of 297

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