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A Mechanic's Life - Tales From Under the Hood

2944 messages,  Last post on May 24, 2013 at 10:11 PM

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Messages Page 80 of 295

#790 of 2944 Re: Pressured to not do your best [thecardoc3] by srs_49

Jan 09, 2013 (2:18 pm)

Replying to: thecardoc3 (Jan 09, 2013 10:58 am)
My Explorer runs specific testing that detects if the cap is loose after a refilling event and makes a proper report of the condition, with a loose cap light...
 
Maybe that's because Ford has a problem designing gas caps and so puts a special "loose cap light" on the dash .

#791 of 2944 Re: Pressured to not do your best [srs_49] by explorerx4

Jan 09, 2013 (5:42 pm)

Replying to: srs_49 (Jan 09, 2013 2:18 pm)
I have an '02 Explorer that I bought new.
It is a great design as an SUV.
There are plenty of things (mechanical) that could have been executed better.
I still would rather drive it than my '11 Explorer, other than fuel mileage.
It's just a vehicle that my kids and I feel comfortable with.
In all that time, it's never been anywhere other then to the dealer where I bought it for service, other than for it's 3rd set of tires.

#792 of 2944 Re: Pressured to not do your best [srs_49] by stickguy

Jan 09, 2013 (9:49 pm)

Replying to: srs_49 (Jan 09, 2013 2:18 pm)
Ford fixed that problem. they stopped putting the gas cap on at all!

#793 of 2944 Re: Pressured to not do your best [stickguy] by thecardoc3

Jan 10, 2013 (5:46 am)

Replying to: stickguy (Jan 09, 2013 9:49 pm)
Yep. My Escape has the cap-less filler neck.

#794 of 2944 Re: Pressured to not do your best [steve_] by thecardoc3

Jan 10, 2013 (6:05 am)

Replying to: steve_ (Jan 09, 2013 11:12 am)
Good to see that Ford is getting there with self-diagnosing cars.
 
Every manufacturer is exploring ways to build in rationality testing to make it easier and reliable to detect, and then alert the driver to system faults. It's the perception that it will make the diagnostics and repairs simpler that is completely false. The technology being added to the various systems on today's cars is only limited by the imaginations of the engineers designing them. srs seems comfortable with the idea that SWAG's (scientific wild a$$ guesses) are an appropriate "diagnostic" step instead of having a work force with all of the training and experience that would required to take an analytical approach every time. He apparently gets away with doing that with his customers, we don't. If we work like that we are incompetent hacks. Meanwhile when we try to take a true professional approach we get pressured (as can be seen by some of the responses here) towards being one of the incompetent hacks that you would turn around and complain about once again. This would all be funny if it wasn't so frustrating.

#795 of 2944 Re: Pressured to not do your best [thecardoc3] by srs_49

Jan 10, 2013 (6:38 am)

Replying to: thecardoc3 (Jan 10, 2013 6:05 am)
srs seems comfortable with the idea that SWAG's (scientific wild a$$ guesses) are an appropriate "diagnostic" step instead of having a work force with all of the training and experience that would required to take an analytical approach every time. He apparently gets away with doing that with his customers, we don't
 
SWAGs have their place in the spectrum of troubleshooting tools.
 
We warrant many of our systems for 20 years. We provide built in test (BIT) diagnostics (hardware and software) that can be run when the system is deployed in the field to identify a problem and tell the tech what module to replace. He/she replaces the module, reruns the diagnostic routines and, if all passes, away they go - the system off to do it's mission, and the faulty module is returned to the factory for more detailed troubleshooting and repair.
 
So the smarts is in the hardware and software that make up the diagnostic routines, not in the tech that swaps out replaceable modules in the field. Which module the tech is told to replace is a lot more than a SWAG.
 
In our case it's just not practical or cost effective to provide the detailed training and test gear to those in the field who are probably only rotating through a 2 year assignment.
 
Is what I just described infallible? Of course not. We still have returns for failures that cannot be fixed with the techniques I described. But from an overall cost standpoint, it is still effective. I don't know what our numbers are, but if (say) 90% of the in-the-field failures are fixed by swapping out modules, leaving 10% to be returned to the factory, then that is still cost effective versus training and equiping every tech in the field.

#797 of 2944 Re: Pressured to not do your best [isellhondas] by Mr_Shiftright HOST

Jan 10, 2013 (7:49 am)

Replying to: isellhondas (Jan 09, 2013 9:07 am)
I was just over at Bay Bridge Motors, a Mini Cooper specialist, getting some advice and some work done. We talked about a howl I get when releasing the clutch when the engine's cold--this happens in 1st gear for about 10 minutes, then it's gone.
 
His response? "Oh, yeah, that's a common issue. It's the dual mass flywheel vibrating slightly until it warms up. We could replace the entire assembly for $1700 but quite honestly, it doesn't affect clutch wear and it could stay that way for the life of the car".
 
BING! No fear, no up-sell--just common sense.

#798 of 2944 Re: Pressured to not do your best [srs_49] by thecardoc3

Jan 10, 2013 (8:27 am)

Replying to: srs_49 (Jan 10, 2013 6:38 am)
Is what I just described infallible? Of course not. We still have returns for failures that cannot be fixed with the techniques I described.
 
Such is the nature of machines.
 
I don't know what our numbers are, but if (say) 90% of the in-the-field failures are fixed by swapping out modules, leaving 10% to be returned to the factory, then that is still cost effective versus training and equiping every tech in the field.
 
So do you blame the techs, discipline them and/or call them hacks when your system fails?
 
We warrant many of our systems for 20 years.
To me that means there must be quite a bit of up front profit in the sale, and there is nothing wrong with that because a business doesn't survive without it. Some portions of the GP go towards future developement of the wares you bring to the market, and of course some of it must go towards growing a capable workforce.
 
In our case it's just not practical or cost effective to provide the detailed training and test gear to those in the field who are probably only rotating through a 2 year assignment
 
Really so what happens to these people after you're done with them? Just joking of course, that sounds like it has a military connection to it. Sadly in our trade there is a lot of that same attitude but it has the appearance of being closer to a five year window as techs are forced to always look for greener pastures that are rarely able to live up to expectations.
 
Our trade has to move past this revolving door mentality and it really has to be able to garner a career oriented perspective. You can't justify training your techs to thrive beyond a two year parts swapping capability. Meanwhile there is so much to have to learn in our trade today that twenty or even thirty years isn't enough. In fact today it may not be possible for any individual to be able to "do it all" in their lifetime.
 
I just read this article.
 
http://allthingsd.com/20130107/automakers-open-their-in-car-platforms-first-up-f- ord-and-soon-gm/
 
This is just a glimpse of yet another skill techs like myself will need to have polished and ready to go when someone is able to upload something that starts corrupting some vehicle software and ends up with who knows what not working. We still won't get to do swaptronics, today replacement modules learn the vehicle VIN from the network the moment they first power up and once learned it cannot be reprogrammed. That is intended to reduce theft concerns, it's argued that there will be no sense in stealing it if it won't work in another car. That's just one more challenge that we have to overcome today for our customers, and it's not something we should be blamed for.

#799 of 2944 Re: Pressured to not do your best [Mr_Shiftright] by thecardoc3

Jan 10, 2013 (8:36 am)

Replying to: Mr_Shiftright (Jan 10, 2013 7:49 am)
His response? "Oh, yeah, that's a common issue. It's the dual mass flywheel vibrating slightly until it warms up. We could replace the entire assembly for $1700 but quite honestly, it doesn't affect clutch wear and it could stay that way for the life of the car".
 
aka, "It's normal, they all do that". BUT If it was under warranty some would insist on it being replaced anyway. Someone else would invariably call the manufacturer about how they were treated by that employee who just refused to care about the problem that their car has........ It's almost a wonder why he would risk his job in telling you the truth that it's really not a concern......

Messages Page 80 of 295

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