Last post on Dec 02, 2013 at 3:15 PM
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#3470 of 4850 Re: Don't Judge! [jayrider]
Jun 12, 2013 (6:05 pm)
Mine is the original oil --- maybe the issue is with the stuff you got when you had it changed. Since you have a lease -- why even think about it.
Just a curiosity more than anything, I'm certainly not worried. Mine has always been dark/dirty from the factory fill through 4-5 changes.
#3471 of 4850 Re: Thankless [jipster]
Jun 13, 2013 (5:07 am)
The customers concern was on cost. So, he "should" pay for the repair if he can't afford it, just to make cardoc happy?
Where would the software industry be without some kind of protection for IP? For a long time the laws weren't enforced, or at least it seemed that way and pirating of software was almost accepted as the norm. Today the software industry takes IP very seriously and we see significant enforcement of laws that protect the companies that produce software. Its frustrating as a small business for us to buy software and only get to have a license to use it for a given period of time and then it turns off ensuring constant cash flow for the I.P owner.
Our trade literally produces IP with that diagnosis in the same way that you writing a program does (iirc you are in the software industry, correct?). But not only is there no protection for us, its still widely accepted that once we produce given information, we are no longer the owner of that information. What happens to us is exactly what would happen to a company who's software gets pirated and then sold for a fraction of what that company needs to generate a profit.
Now of course what I wrote here amounts to only the first thoughts or draft towards answering your question. Today the guy gets to do whatever he wants with the information provided and its simply assumed that we have been fairly compensated for our effort. The facts are the repairs still heavily subsidize the diagnostic portion of the shop visit and that's why you see me working two jobs (the shop and teaching) to try and keep pace. That also is one of the underlying reasons that techs who do the stuff described in that first thankless post are uncommon. There really isn't a reasonable return for the efforts that we have had to put into our careers.
Again, this is just the first thoughts and I will need some time to polish this up and better present the full picture.
#3472 of 4850 Re: Thankless [thecardoc3]
by Stever@Edmunds HOST
Jun 13, 2013 (5:36 am)
One thing you'll have to sort out is how software is usually sold to the general public. I license Word and that just gives me the right to use it. The work product produced is mine and I can sell that, but I can't reverse engineer the product and sell it. At most I can sell the license.
I buy parts and service from the auto shop. A diagnosis is information I'm buying, but there's not a license restricting how I can use that information.
A doc tried to sell me a part when I broke my leg. I declined but paid for the diagnosis and his other conservative treatment (didn't want a plate and screws. )
#3473 of 4850 Re: Thankless [thecardoc3]
Jun 13, 2013 (6:16 am)
The ground circuit failure was inside the connector for the sensor itself.
So, another connection/wiring problem. Seems to be a recurring theme here.
Out of curiosity, how many of the electrical problems that you come across would you estimate are due to connector, connections, and wiring? Under wiring, I would include circuit card (PWB) problems such as cracked traces on instrument clusters, cold solder joints, etc.
#3474 of 4850 Re: Thankless [thecardoc3]
Jun 13, 2013 (6:29 am)
Its frustrating as a small business for us to buy software and only get to have a license to use it for a given period of time
Well, technically, if you read the shrink wrap license or end user license agreement, it probably says that you do not own the software; that the maker of the software retains full rights to the software; and that you are just purchasing the right to use that software. Furthermore those license agreements also probably state that the software is not guaranteed to do anything, and that the company is immune from any kind of legal action should the software cause harm.
That goes way beyond IP protection.
#3475 of 4850 Re: Thankless [steve_]
Jun 13, 2013 (6:39 am)
>At most I can sell the license.
Are you even able to do that? Wasn't there a problem about Microsoft not allowing transfer of Windows licenses by sale by the original user?
#3476 of 4850 Re: Thankless [srs_49]
Jun 13, 2013 (6:43 am)
that the maker of the software retains full rights to the software; and that you are just purchasing the right to use that software.
So how do you think consumers are going to react when the manufacturers time out the license to operate the fuel injection or other system software in their cars? (hypo)
#3477 of 4850 Re: Thankless [imidazol97]
by Stever@Edmunds HOST
Jun 13, 2013 (7:17 am)
Yeah, I think I've read that Windows 8 is tied to the motherboard so you'd have to sell it with the software. Probably depends on the version; with a system builder version you can probably do whatever you want and still get support.
#3478 of 4850 Re: Thankless [srs_49]
Jun 14, 2013 (12:28 am)
Out of curiosity, how many of the electrical problems that you come across would you estimate are due to connector, connections, and wiring?
Nearly 100% of the ones that are referred to me by other sources and just about 50% of the ones where I get to be the first one to see the car. There are quite a lot of events that the diagnostic routine leads straight to the circuit fault, it gets repaired and no parts need to or get replaced.
The Tribute was a fine example of how this quite often works out. With the diagnostic rate, and then the labor rate even though I did have to use a "pigtail" to repair the failed circuit we won't really make money on the repair unless she becomes a regular customer and we get to have the tires, suspension and engine performance work that her car still needs. Competition and consumer pressure forces the pricing to be too low to stand alone.
Under wiring, I would include circuit card (PWB) problems such as cracked traces on instrument clusters, cold solder joints, etc.
I'm not including those as wiring issues, to me those are component issues. While some components can be repaired you quickly learn that without a real way to test the repair other than to put the part back in the car and run it for a few weeks worth of cycles you leave yourself wide open to forcing the customer to be your test bench and make it likely that they will have to bring the car back "for the same thing". Combine that with no ready reference for whether a particular chip or item on the board inside the component has a durability issue or not and we would probably have more failed repair attempts than the business can tolerate. So the best choice is to have someone who specializes in the component repair to do that, while we make sure that the rest of the car is operating correctly.
Well anyway, the cluster showed up late thursday and it will go in today. Did I mention that the battery is bad on the Focus? (I'm pretty sure that I did) He's going to replace that himself, that or he's probably going to have a parts store do it for him.
#3479 of 4850 Re: Thankless [thecardoc3]
by Stever@Edmunds HOST
Jun 14, 2013 (3:55 am)
So the best choice is to have someone who specializes in the component repair to do that, while we make sure that the rest of the car is operating correctly.
For something like an instrument cluster, the economics of repair sort of works since the new parts are expensive, but even so, there's only a few online places that do that work and I bet most broken clusters get replaced with new ones (assuming parts are available).
But for something like a blower resistor on my van, it wouldn't be worth turning on the soldering station at a dedicated shop, much less having a general repair shop try to fix a broken trace on it (yeah, mine is solid state).