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A Mechanic's Life - Tales From Under the Hood

2811 messages,  Last post on May 19, 2013 at 7:34 PM

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Messages Page 188 of 282

#1862 of 2811 Re: He couldn't see at night. [jipster] by steve_ HOST

Mar 06, 2013 (12:22 pm)

Replying to: jipster (Mar 06, 2013 11:59 am)
I'd love to know the bottom line profits AutoZone drove to their stores when they started giving away OBDII code pulls. It has to be huge.
 
The first manufacturer that starts giving cheap or free diagnostics to OEM purchasers is going to make a killing too. I keep trying to tell GM that, but they haven't grasped the concept yet. They are really creating a lot of ill will when someone reads a few dozen posts about a known issue (like door lock actuators) and the GM rep says they have to get a $120 diagnosis from the dealer before GM can decide whether to help them. At least lots of dealers will waive the diagnostic fee.
 
(Have to say, it sure is fun telling GM and Doc how to run their business from behind a keyboard. ).

#1863 of 2811 Re: He couldn't see at night. [thecardoc3] by jipster

Mar 06, 2013 (12:22 pm)

Replying to: thecardoc3 (Mar 06, 2013 2:27 am)
can be found in better educating about 60% of the consumers as to what it really takes to be there for them.
 
Good point. Except for you, I see very few people, shops, dealerships trying to educate.
 
I think most sensible people would accept high diagnostic fees and labor rates if they knew why they are what they are. Heck, put out pamplets in he waiting room in the reasoning behind prices. Hand out one after each repair. Word of mouth, from a service writer, doesnt go as far in my book. People like seeing things in print from a reliable source... an expert in the field. Diagnostic fees usually arent posted... like they are a deep dark secret. Bring it all out in the open man! I think people will be more willing to trust that way. Just one mans opinion.

#1864 of 2811 Re: He couldn't see at night. [jipster] by thecardoc3

Mar 06, 2013 (1:23 pm)

Replying to: jipster (Mar 06, 2013 12:13 pm)
At some point those tools are paid for.
 
The only question is, did that happen before it is deemed obsolete? My Chrysler Star Scan was obsoleted just nine months after I bought it. It was replaced by the Star Mobile, and about a year and a half later that was obsoleted by the Wi-Tech. At that time I still had almost a year left to pay off my Star Scan.
 
It seems to me that any cost for tools and diagnostic equipment should be transferred to the actual cost of repairs. The only variable used in calculating a diagnostic fee should be time spnt finding the problem
 
In a simpler world that would be true. Today every manufacturer sells scan tools as software for which we get a license to use. The initial purchase averages in the $5000-7000 range for the most common makes. When the license expires the tool turns off until it's renewed for an other year. That's $1700 for Chrysler, $900 for Ford, $900 for Mazda, $1400 for GM, $1000 for Toyota, etc.
 
Not trying to tell you how your/a business should be run... just thinking out loud
 
Lot's of people "think out loud" along those lines, and somehow it does turn around to be someone trying to tell the consumers how we should run our shops, when they actually have no idea what we have to overcome these days. Take the above prices, now picture one or two of them obsoleteing their current tool and changing to yet another. This is where some shops support R2R because they think it will give them the tools without all of the expense. It won't.

#1865 of 2811 Re: He couldn't see at night. [steve_] by thecardoc3

Mar 06, 2013 (1:30 pm)

Replying to: steve_ (Mar 06, 2013 7:08 am)
So, if I buy a new car and hate it after 2 months, all I need to do is figure out some very weird set of circumstances that I can jinx the car with that an "average" tech won't be able to figure out. After jumping through the lemon law hoops, I'll be rid of the car and have some buyback money in my banking account.
 
If you were on this side of that abuse, you wouldn't think that it is very funny. Sometimes the cause is buyers remorse, sometimes it comes down to the customers employment circumstances have changed. Either way they write really bad CSI ratings on the tech/shop and do whatever they can to get out from underneath their agreement and they don't care if someone else gets hurt. It actually happens a lot more than you might think.

#1866 of 2811 Re: He couldn't see at night. [steve_] by jipster

Mar 06, 2013 (1:31 pm)

Replying to: steve_ (Mar 06, 2013 12:22 pm)
I'd love to know the bottom line profits AutoZone drove to their stores when they started giving away OBDII code pulls. It has to be huge.
 
I've gotten codes read and battery analyis from Auto Zone about 4 or 5 times. Usually just to confirm my own Jip diagnosis... which I must humbly admit to as being spot on.
 
I've bought a couple parts from Autozone, others they didn't carry.
 
Their battery service is pretty good. About $120 for a Duralast Gold battery (3 years free replacement/7 years prorated)... installed. Don't even have to get my hands dirty.
 
Have to say, it sure is fun telling GM and Doc how to run their business from behind a keyboard. ).
 
Yep. It's great being a backseat driver, or armchair quarterback. I'm always telling Jerry Jones how to run the Dallas Cowboys whenever they are on t.v. My wife usually says he's wearing too much eye liner... man make-up that is.

#1867 of 2811 Re: He couldn't see at night. [Mr_Shiftright] by thecardoc3

Mar 06, 2013 (1:44 pm)

Replying to: Mr_Shiftright (Mar 06, 2013 9:09 am)
The label "they're good but expensive" has more staying power than "they're cheap but you have to go back 3 times".
 
I've been told that we actually have that very label. Our mechanical labor rate is under $80/hr. It's a death sentence for anyone with thin skin who is less than extremely determined to make it.
 
if your shop is as good as you say it is, people will come, and people will pay
 
Oh they do, for the stuff others can't handle that is. Then we don't see them again until the next time they encounter a nightmare problem. On paper being the most capable should have earned all of their business. The reality is, it doesn't work. When our final day comes, no-one will (or should) try to fill our shoes. It's just not worth trying to do.
 
I think you're taking the wrong approach. You should raise your prices. You should raise them to be higher than any of your independent competition
 
We are the highest independent. The only thing that did was make room for the others around us to raise their prices and leave a comfortable margin below us to play cut-throat with.

#1868 of 2811 Re: He couldn't see at night. [thecardoc3] by jipster

Mar 06, 2013 (1:57 pm)

Replying to: thecardoc3 (Mar 06, 2013 1:23 pm)
The only question is, did that happen before it is deemed obsolete? My Chrysler Star Scan was obsoleted just nine months after I bought it
 
Home computers are obsolete the same way, but you can still use them. Diagnostic tool run the same way... always having to buy to keep up with the latest technology? Could you have "gotten by" with keeping the Chrysler Star Scan instead of up-grading ?
 
and somehow it does turn around to be someone trying to tell the consumers how we should run our shops, when they actually have no idea what we have to overcome these days.
 
That's what my questions and scenarios are all about.. finding out how and why you run your shop like you do. You think Steve or Shifty are sitting there thinking, " Yeah, Jip is right... cardoc should be running his shop like that." Doubtful.
 
You're wanting to teach, I like to learn. I learn by asking questions and challenging why you do thing the way you do... to learn.... not to be a wise guy. No need to be offended.

#1869 of 2811 Re: He couldn't see at night. [thecardoc3] by boomchek

Mar 06, 2013 (2:05 pm)

Replying to: thecardoc3 (Mar 06, 2013 1:23 pm)
The only question is, did that happen before it is deemed obsolete?
 
I remember when I worked at a Chrysler dealership about 5 years ago, the service manager told me they had to spend a bunch of money on specialized tools and diagnostc equipment for the Chrysler Crossfire (as it was 80% Mercedes SLK based), only for the car to have slow sales (meaning very few service customers) and for it to be discontinued less within 4 years of launch.

#1870 of 2811 Re: He couldn't see at night. [jipster] by thecardoc3

Mar 06, 2013 (3:18 pm)

Replying to: jipster (Mar 06, 2013 1:57 pm)
somehow it does turn around to be someone trying to tell the consumers how we should run our shops, when they actually have no idea what we have to overcome these days
 
You're wanting to teach, I like to learn. I learn by asking questions and challenging why you do thing the way you do... to learn.... not to be a wise guy. No need to be offended.
 
No offense at all. I think you're misreading what I am trying to write.
 
 Could you have "gotten by" with keeping the Chrysler Star Scan instead of up-grading ?
 
The Star Scan is still my most up to date Chrysler tool. It does not work on anything after 2010. I have to use an aftermarket tool, with its limitations and my J2534 for any re-flashing. That means just like the volvo mentioned, at some point I will run into a process that we won't be able to complete. More than anything that's the biggest problem, it might only be a one out of ten operations that the O.E. tool has to be used where the aftermarket tools stop short.
 
The only question is, did that happen before it is deemed obsolete? My Chrysler Star Scan was obsoleted just nine months after I bought it
  
Home computers are obsolete the same way, but you can still use them.
 
Sorry, that's not even close in comparison. It's closer to your internet access than the PC itself, only make your internet access cost about $1500 a month. Stop paying for it and it shuts down and you can't use the machine for its intended purpose. Now the Star Scan since its a stand alone tool continues to work. But the Wi-tech that superceeds it won't. It's $7000 and on each birthday another $1700. The moment you stop paying that $1700, the program is useless. Now remember, this is how each manufacturer is running today.

#1871 of 2811 Re: He couldn't see at night. [thecardoc3] by isellhondas

Mar 06, 2013 (3:59 pm)

Replying to: thecardoc3 (Mar 06, 2013 1:44 pm)
Cardoc,
 
After reading your postings I have no doubt that you are one of the best in your business and your shop is a place I would gladly take my cars to.
 
But, I really have to wonder how you can put up with it. You work long hours, invest thousands of dollars in equipment that quickly becomes worthless and you get stuck with the miserable jobs while your competition skims off the "gravy" jobs!
 
I can't imagine opening up a shop in this day and age!
 
If I did, I think I would specialize in one or two makes of cars and not open my doors to everything that comes in.
 
We have an excellent indy shop here that is picky about what they take in yet they are always booked. They will NOT work on older cars because of parts availability and the fear of getting stuck.
 
I listened once as they "fired" a semi nasty customer who was trying to blame an oil leak on something they had done. They fixed the leak and nicely asked him never to return.
 
I just don't know how and why you keep at this but for the sake of your customers, it's a good thing you do.

Messages Page 188 of 282

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