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A Mechanic's Life - Tales From Under the Hood

2856 messages,  Last post on May 21, 2013 at 6:14 PM

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Messages Page 155 of 287

#1533 of 2856 Re: Diplomacy isn't my strongsuit [srs_49] by thecardoc3

Feb 18, 2013 (3:35 pm)

Replying to: srs_49 (Feb 18, 2013 3:12 pm)
So, instead of "reseat the gas cap", how 'bout "jiggle the seal"? Would have to see one in person.
 
  
http://media.ford.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=28320

#1534 of 2856 Re: Diplomacy isn't my strongsuit [thecardoc3] by srs_49

Feb 18, 2013 (3:54 pm)

Replying to: thecardoc3 (Feb 18, 2013 3:35 pm)
Thanks for the link, but a graphic would have been nice.
 
Sounds needlessly complicated, particularly the part about sensing the size of the tube being inserted, IMM. A solution in search of a problem, so to speak.
 
What ever happened to KISS?

#1535 of 2856 Re: Diplomacy isn't my strongsuit [srs_49] by thecardoc3

Feb 18, 2013 (4:07 pm)

Replying to: srs_49 (Feb 18, 2013 3:54 pm)
What ever happened to KISS?
 
http://www.kissonline.com/

#1536 of 2856 Re: Diplomacy isn't my strongsuit [thecardoc3] by busiris

Feb 18, 2013 (4:40 pm)

Replying to: thecardoc3 (Feb 18, 2013 4:07 pm)
LOL!!!

#1538 of 2856 Re: Diplomacy isn't my strongsuit [busiris] by thecardoc3

Feb 19, 2013 (6:15 am)

Replying to: busiris (Feb 18, 2013 1:41 pm)
The disclaimer at the end pretty much summed it up... When in doubt, follow the instruction found in the owner's manual.
 
Was there any part of the article were a suggestion was made that the manual doesn't have to be followed exactly? You can read the lines, or inbetween them, just look to see if any doubts are suggested.

#1539 of 2856 Re: Diplomacy isn't my strongsuit [thecardoc3] by thecardoc3

Feb 20, 2013 (6:35 am)

Replying to: thecardoc3 (Feb 19, 2013 6:15 am)
Well, that sure brought this all to a screeching halt. Nobody wanted to agree with that, but you can't find what you need to disagree with it there either. It's important to note that I've seen a little drama play out a few times once a problem really does arrise.
 
Advertising suggests that a given product meets a vehicles specs.
Customer, shop, or tech believing the advertising uses the product and if no problems occur, nobody cares. But when a problem eventually does occur, the manufacturer of the product simply points out that they had that disclaimer in their literature. Customer, shop, or tech ends up holding the bag. (Often-times it's the manufacturer of the vehicle anyway)
 
Busiris states it as "When in doubt, follow the instruction found in the owner's manual. " Meanwhile in the article you find this;
 
The language in some owner's manuals suggests that using an oil other than the one specified by the manufacturer will void the car's warranty. This is not the case, says Thom Smith, Valvoline's vice president of branded lubricant technology
 
These three paragrapghs are easy to read and not catch all of the details.
 
"If a customer uses a non-licensed engine oil that is simply ILSAC GF-5 quality, they will not enjoy the benefits of using a Dexos-licensed product," Read says. Those benefits could include better low-temperature performance, cleaner pistons and better aeration performance, he says. "This could be especially important as the engine oil ages."
 
Read's case for Dexos sounds compelling, but Valvoline's Smith isn't buying it.
 
"Our SynPower 5W-20, 5W-30 and DuraBlend 5W-30 went through all the Dexos testing and passed all the requirements," Smith says. "But we felt that carrying the Dexos name was not providing the consumer with any value."
 
At the same time this article was being written, Thom Smith of Valvoline has a quote in Lubes'n'Greases. Research his quote there regarding dexos and see if it is consistent with what was written here.
 
Lets repeat one of those paragraphs.
Our SynPower 5W-20, 5W-30 and DuraBlend 5W-30 went through all the Dexos testing and passed all the requirements,"
 
What is GM's pumping requirements specification for any approved product at -35f?
What is Valvolines pumping specification at -35f for the products listed?
 
From earlier in the article;
 
GM distanced itself from the API guidelines with the introduction of Dexos. According to GM, the Dexos oil specification will decrease harmful piston deposits by up to 28 percent and improve fuel efficiency by up to 0.3 percent compared to the older ILSAC GF-4 specifications.
 
Then later on there was this.
 
Smith says. "But we felt that carrying the Dexos name was not providing the consumer with any value."
 
"Dexos" isn't a name. dexos1 is a specification.
 
Now moving back to the top of the article;
 
The API and ILSAC standards are the baseline, says Timothy Miranda, senior engineer for race oil and field testing for Castrol Lubricants, which manufactures oil for automakers such as Audi, BMW and Volkswagen. Automakers are free to improve upon the standards as long as they meet the minimum requirements.
 
The funny thing however is to meet certain European specs some oils in fact do not meet ILSAC, which is OK provided a consumer doesn't choose a product for their car that does.
 
Now, don't just take what I have written here and say, yea or nay. Research the data and find out for yourself. If you have trouble I can provide some links for references. Keep in mind Valvoline has a lot of great products that meet the specs for many vehicles. This is about what a given customer needs to know in order to choose a product correctly.

#1540 of 2856 Re: Diplomacy isn't my strongsuit [thecardoc3] by Mr_Shiftright HOST

Feb 20, 2013 (7:48 am)

Replying to: thecardoc3 (Feb 20, 2013 6:35 am)
Sometimes this "oil talk" reminds me of medieval monks arguing about how many angels could fit on the head of a pin.
 
Who worries these days about "28% fewer piston deposits" or oil flow at -35F?
 
I mean, when you start your car in the morning, are you really all thinking "oh, man, I hope the oil I put in last week will prevent piston deposits over the next 400,000 miles".
 
You open the owner's manual, you read what it says, you put that into your engine, and you're done for the next 10 years---that's the experience of the vast number of drivers of modern automobiles.

#1541 of 2856 Re: Diplomacy isn't my strongsuit [thecardoc3] by srs_49

Feb 20, 2013 (8:31 am)

Replying to: thecardoc3 (Feb 20, 2013 6:35 am)
Well, that sure brought this all to a screeching halt.
 
Not sure what kind of response you were looking for. This is just an article on a consumer (automotive) web site. It's not meant to be a product specification, or a contract, or a statement of work (SOW).
 
The language in some owner's manuals suggests that using an oil other than the one specified by the manufacturer will void the car's warranty. This is not the case, says Thom Smith, Valvoline's vice president of branded lubricant technology
 
I fully agree with that. Owner's manuals are full of terms like "recommend", which in my mind means it's not required. If it's required, than the owners manual ought to say so, with wording such as "the owner SHALL use 5W-20 oil that is labeled to meet the Dexos specification", or "it is required that the owner...".

#1542 of 2856 Re: Diplomacy isn't my strongsuit [Mr_Shiftright] by thecardoc3

Feb 20, 2013 (10:24 am)

Replying to: Mr_Shiftright (Feb 20, 2013 7:48 am)
You open the owner's manual, you read what it says, you put that into your engine, and you're done for the next 10 years---that's the experience of the vast number of drivers of modern automobiles.
 
Totally agree, and exactly what does it say?
 
From Search Auto Parts.com....
 
The 2011 Buick Lucerne owner's manual contains this warning: "Use only engine oil that is approved to the dexos specification or an equivalent engine oil of the appropriate viscosity grade. Engine oils approved to the dexos specification will show the dexos symbol on the container. Failure to use the recommended engine oil or equivalent can result in engine damage not covered by the vehicle warranty."
 
Greg Martin, director, policy and Washington communications, General Motors Corp., says if a GM car owner does not use motor oil that meets the dexos spec, GM would be free not to cover repairs for those issues under the new vehicle or parts limited warranties. "This is true across the industry," he adds. "This has been true for years. This is legal under Magnuson-Moss."
 
The trick now is exactly what is or is not "equivelant"?
 
Who worries these days about "28% fewer piston deposits" or oil flow at -35F?
 
Oh just GM, Ford, Honda and Chrysler to name a few......

Messages Page 155 of 287

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