Last post on Jun 16, 2013 at 12:33 AM
You are in the Hyundai Elantra
What is this discussion about?
Hyundai Elantra, Fuel Efficiency (MPG), Hatchback, Sedan
#712 of 752 worsening MPG with new tires
Jan 29, 2013 (11:38 am)
My 2011 Elantra Limited never got the gas mileage that was promised. That made me very unhappy but I took the MPG Debit card deal. Then I needed new tires! I didn't want performance tires which, apparently, the car is designed to have. they are not practical for the type of driving I do ( highway....65 miles per day). So, after much searching, I picked a tire that was not performance and would fit the car and would give me a decent amount of mileage if I take care of the car. Now my mpg has gone down from a high of 34 to barely making 29. I HATE this car.
#713 of 752 Re: This Sucks [backy]
Jan 29, 2013 (5:20 pm)
Backy - In my experience on this forum it seems that you had great difficulty accepting even 'legitimate' complaints. Or maybe you could spell out which complaints you found legitimate as it seems no one's negative personal experiences with their car was acceptable by your standards either.
I think my own credibility is intact having, for instance, predicted lawsuits for Hyundai over this issue many moons ago. If you choose to play Pollyanna for Hyundai and the U.S. government I guess that is your choice (or job?) but I think most would not openly claim such a naive understanding of how business, in general, really works.
While I don't (yet) claim any specific knowledge of this kind of 'backroom agreement' between the U.S. gov and Hyundai, I think it naive to not consider it as a factor. Is it so outrageous to suggest that our government might have been lenient with Korea on the eve of a hard won Free Trade Agreement which focused mainly on agriculture and auto sales issues, a kind of NAFTA EAST? Do deals such as this get convoluted and corrupted by so many interests, players, and pieces? Yes, of course they do. Might this somehow have played into the government's handling of Hyundai's business in the U.S. ? I suggest at least reading up on the Free Trade Agreement with Korea before responding.
And assuming we can agree on the fact that Hyundai knew its mileage info and advertising were untrue, do you think they might have figured the down side of that calculated risk into their profits/losses?
Their payout for this lie is so low relative to the losses incurred by consumers that it is laughable. Maybe someone can crunch some numbers about their profits vs. their losses as a result of the lawsuits. I think it's pretty clear that this is a very small financial 'dent in their bumper', although I wonder if they also calculated the anger and loss of customer loyalty into their plan?
One of their selling points was that a purchaser could count on a good return on resale for this car due to its great mileage and popularity. I doubt that will be the case, so I think Hyundai should also be forced to pay out a fixed rate for resale of anyone wishing to dump their cars. At the very least this loss at the back end should also be calculated into a compensation package.
#714 of 752 The latest lawsuit against Hyundai looks for fairer compensation
Jan 29, 2013 (6:16 pm)
Hyundai is trying very hard to nip this rash of lawsuits in the bud by its compensation offerings. But they fall far short of the 'real' losses incurred by customers. In this latest lawsuit, they spell out the kind of compensation that is more in alignment with those real losses:
Monday’s suit demands reimbursement of the full cost of the vehicle to owners, and seeks to force Hyundai to turn over its profits from the sale of the vehicles. The suit also aims to halt what it calls “false advertising” about mileage claims, and asks the carmaker to “disseminate an informational campaign to correct its misrepresentations and material omissions.”
#715 of 752 Re: This Sucks [roadscholar3]
Jan 29, 2013 (6:21 pm)
Or maybe you could spell out which complaints you found legitimate as it seems no one's negative personal experiences with their car was acceptable by your standards either.
Sure. IMO, a legitimate complaint is one that is backed by efforts to determine if the vehicle is capable of attaining its EPA ratings. I have posted umpteen times in these FE discussions a fairly simple process to do that. Not once--never--has someone come back and told us the results of that test. That told me something about the complaint.
Why do I think it's important to determine if a vehicle is capable of attaining its EPA ratings, if the owner isn't achieving them? Because of something that many people who complain about fuel economy forget: YMMV. There's LOTS of reasons someone is not getting the EPA ratings on a car. There could be a defect in the car. There could be something else wrong with the car, e.g. got a bad batch of gas or someone tried to put E15 in it (which Hyundai says is a no-no). It could be driven in conditions not at all comparable to how the EPA runs its tests. It could be due to how the car is driven. etc.
So the first step is to determine if the car CAN meet its EPA rating. If not, figure out why it isn't, with help from the dealer and manufacturer. If you determine the car can meet its EPA ratings, then figure out what if anything can be done to driving habits/style to improve FE. Maybe there isn't anything that can be done; maybe there is but the driver is unable or unwilling to make the necessary adjustments.
FWIW, I have driven this car. In what I consider very much "real world" conditions: in Austin, TX, in mid-summer (100+ degree weather), combination of downtown, suburban, and urban highway driving. A lot of stop and go, not much cruising. And on a nearly-new car I easily exceeded the EPA numbers. And I wasn't trying as hard to save gas as I do on my own cars, as I didn't have to pay for the gas. But put a different driver behind the wheel of the same car, and the odds are pretty good it would NOT hit the EPA number.
And if you've read test reports on the car, e.g. from Popular Mechanics, you'll see they were able to get close to if not meet or exceed the EPA numbers under moderate driving. So it's not just moi.
It can be done. Not everyone has driving patterns that allow it. And for those who do, not all of them will be willing to do what's needed (e.g. light foot on the gas, anticipate stops, no lengthy idling).
Re all the angst about Hyundai restating the FE on the Elantra... do you realize we're talking a difference of one mpg (average) between the old EPA rating and the corrected one? ONE MPG! And that number has been scrutinized and verified by the EPA. So if someone isn't hitting that revised number... methinks they should be looking someplace other than Hyundai for an answer--unless there's a defect in the car.
#716 of 752 Re: This Sucks [backy]
Jan 30, 2013 (8:31 am)
I'd also like to add that most of the complainers probably greatly underestimate the amount of city-like driving they actually do. For example, driving 25 mph with stop-and-go conditions on the freeway during rush hour counts as city driving, not Hwy. This is why you have to also look at the MPH calculation to understand why you're not getting the EPA numbers. If your average MPH is in the 20s, you're driving mostly city.
Another thing that a lot of people don't realize is that with the EPA City test, the avg idle time for a stop sign/light is about 14 secs. In the real world, the idle times can be as much as 180 secs.
#717 of 752 Re: This Sucks [gman4911]
Jan 30, 2013 (9:25 am)
I certainly understand that the EPA numbers are not promises of MPG. However, the last 4 cars I have purchased (Japanese and German) all met or exceeded their EPA estimates and that is driving in the San Fran Bay Area with traffic, hills and freeways. As well noted in other forums the Hyundai computers in their cars overestimate the MPG by 2 mpg as well. I am not a conspiracy theorist but I do find it very offensive that Hyundai overestimated their EPA sticker numbers and their cars computers and frankly just blamed the drivers for lower EPA until they got caught. I am very pissed that consumers cannot count on the manufacturer (Hyundai) or the EPA in their car buying decisions to provide valid info. The vast majority of drivers are not making Hyundai's numbers (as validated by consumers and the vast majority of car review publications). Just compare what the publications get compared on all of brands of car tests to their EPA numbers and they are always much closer. I think Hyundai's offer of their puny mileage reimbursement is damage control for getting caught. I like my '13 Elantra GT (aside from the MPG) but won't buy another Hyundai. I just don't trust them anymore.
Feb 20, 2013 (11:22 am)
2012 Elantra GLS 25K Miles AVG MPG 27.5 Seattle W.A
First off. This is the twenty first centurey. A 2012 Elantra should get better or as good mpg as my 1990 Honda Civic EX, Avg 34.5 MPG. The Elantra will not even break 30MPG on a early Sunday morning on I.5 at 65MPH wth echo on from Seattle to Tacoma. The Honda 43.5 MPG doing the same trip. Second, the Elantra has come a long ways. Comfertable, decent power, great brakes,reliable. But the rear suspencion recieves a big fail. Conastoga wagon has better. I did not buy this car just for the milage, but was a big part of it.
#719 of 752 Re: mpg on a recent 400 mile roundtrip [g2iowa]
Feb 20, 2013 (11:36 am)
I agree, you cannot rely on just the trip computer. 20k on car. five fill ups from same station, Shell regular gas 10 percent methenal. AVG 27.5 MPG
#720 of 752 Re: Damn Skippy [eweiner]
Mar 05, 2013 (10:36 am)
I'm with you on that, I have the car 14 month's and still only get 24 combined....I filled out the form online and they said I would be compensated $14.00, what a joke. When I called they said I need to bring the car in and leave it a few days so they could test it out, but how would I get to work? I'm really not interested...I just want to get rid of it..but I'm stuck with a 3 year lease.
#721 of 752 In the real world ...
Mar 05, 2013 (9:09 pm)
I between June 26, 2012 and February 27, 2013 I put 11,769 miles on a 2013 Hyundai Elantra GLS Sedan with the Preferred Equipment package (home link, auto-dimming mirror, heated front seats, etc.) Frankly I LOVED the way the car looked, and compared to the 2006 Honda Civic LX Sedan I replaced with it, it was quiet, comfortable, spacious and, on all but the worst of roads, a better handler, as well.
But the one thing it NEVER has been is the equal of the Civic in terms of fuel economy. On the highway, the Civic–driven without any regard for fuel consumption (i.e., between 75 and 85 mph come hell or high water)–consistently delivered 38 mpg. If I was forced to drive nearer the posted limits–such as during the tail end of rush hour–the Civic would console me with as much as 43 mpg. Mixed city/hwy driving ranged from 28 to 32. NEVER, ever did the Civic return less than 26 mpg.
The Elantra? During a 12 mile stretch early one Monday morning coming back from Vancouver BC, I got snarled in nascent rush hour traffic on I-405 South just past Lynnwood that brought me down to between 45 and 55 mph, during which time I averaged 43 mpg on what is essentially a flat stretch of freeway. And that was the last time I saw average mileage greater than 38 mpg INDICATED–which must be emphasized because the indicated mileage is ALWAYS optimistic by no less than 2 mpg. The actual typical highway fuel economy I got was between 34 and 36 mpg if I kept my speed no greater than 65 mph and was lucky enough to not have to climb any hills. You see, the Elantra seems EXTREMELY sensitive to grades. As in "it sucks gas to generate the power necessary to get up even modest inclines."
Unfortunately, everywhere I drive involves cresting some kind of hill (I'm in the lowest part of Redmond, WA, and everything is uphill). Consequently, in city driving, I'm blessed if I can keep the mileage above 20 mpg (22 mpg indicated). Actually, it's not a blessing so much as me devoting myself to driving like an old lady. Which sucks enough that when I started reading that the new Honda Accord–despite being larger; heavier; burdened with larger, drag-inducing 18-inch wheels and tires; and more powerful and comfortable–gets REAL WORLD fuel economy better than my Elantra's REAL WORLD mileage, I went to try one out last week and wound up signing on the dotted line, leaving the Hyundai behind to charm then frustrate somebody else. Guess what, the Accord (I got the Sport sedan) actually DOES get significantly better mileage. In mixed driving so far–the same routes I traveled routinely in my Elantra–it's averaging 32 mpg (compared to 26 mpg max in the Elantra). I know: I'm comparing apples to oranges, but while waiting to take delivery of the Accord, I was giving a spanking new 2013 Honda Civic LX, and for the day that I drove it, it delivered even better fuel economy in the same mixed driving: 38 mpg. On the highway I saw sustained 43 mpg with the "ECON" button engaged. So, anyone concerned with maximum mileage: look beyond the Elantra's pretty face and check out the competition.
Speaking of frustrations (and disappointments), my Elantra didn't age well at all. By the time we parted company, the dash had developed a fistful of consistent creaks and buzzes–centered around that snazzy-looking, multi-part center stack–that drove me crazy! And the beige seats were stain magnets, even if they are relatively easy to clean.