Last post on Jan 26, 2012 at 11:51 AM
You are in the Edmunds Support Questions & Issues
What is this discussion about?
Car Buying, Car Financing, Car Leasing, Car Selling, Car Values, Certified Used (CPO), True Market Value (TMV)
#139 of 180 Re: Have other edmund's users found TMV to be realistic? [rb94burb]
Dec 28, 2010 (12:25 pm)
I'm shopping for a new car (first in quite awhile) and have been used to the Edmunds books w/ invoice & MSRP. I find TMV to be confusing and not exactly useful. Why do I care about TMV? I want to negotiate from invoice. To me, TMV seems to be an unholy alliance between a formerly trusted source (Edmunds) and the car stores. Or am I over-stating it?
#140 of 180 Re: Have other edmund's users found TMV to be realistic? [g3750]
by kirstie_h HOST
Dec 28, 2010 (12:33 pm)
Negotiate however you want - no one will encourage you to go against the method that works best for you. It's just another tool (along with invoice pricing) to help you in the buying process. Of course you'll want to keep in mind that on occasion, TMV has been less than invoice price.
Edmunds doesn't really have a horse in the race, apart from the consumer, since you're the ones who use this site. We try to offer as many tools as we can to help you in the buying process - it is doubtful that every one of them will be useful to each individual shopper.
#141 of 180 TMV - older cars & high mileage cars
Mar 09, 2011 (3:46 pm)
Well, I tried to use TMV to value a 1996 Fleetwood Brougham that i bought. It had 70,000 miles - very low miles for a 15+ year old car. Condition was clean - not excellent, but no paint / body damage and most everything worked (and i fixed / replaced what didnt). TMV just choked on the value - could not adjust for miles or condition or most equipment. I guess it has a problem with cars over 10 yrs old.
Now onto recent cars with high mileage. Tried to value my wife's 2005 CTS with 119K on it, condition is outstanding - as clean / nice as the 2008 we are getting for her. But the TMV values are about $3,000 higher than what the real world trade-in values folks said (they were pretty close in the end).
On the plus side, the TMV dealer retail ended up also being about $3,000 high as well because i had not too much of a problem getting to where a similarly priced alternate car was priced at. In the end, the trade being $3,000 off and newer car also $3,000 off in the same direction canceled each other out. But i am now wary of TMV.
I also tried KBB and a "black book" page off an autonation site, both of them were lower than TMV on the 2005, slightly lower on the 2008 and 2009 we were looking at.
Well, it might be another 2-3 years before i have to go through this again. I'm keeping the Fleetwood - they are bulletproof, and hers is a Cadillac CPO with the balance of a 6yr 100,000 mile warranty (3 yrs, 73,000mi left).
Strange, keep your calculator & laptop with you at the dealer i guess!
#142 of 180 Dealer antics skew TMV values
Mar 10, 2011 (6:29 am)
Here's another re-take on this. I like how dealers shove every last cent on to the trade allowance in the sales order. This has two effects, it inflates the trade-in amount and also inflates the sell price of the car. both of these affect Edmunds TMV and other 'systems'
This was mentioned way back in this thread. Here's an example.
Car MSRP (or used car asking price) is 32,000
Negotiated buy price 28,000
Original trade in offer 5,000
Original "difference" is 23,000
Negotiated "difference" to 22,000
Dealer will write it up as:
sale price 32,000
trade in 10,000
This messes up TMV severely, especially with used cars, so that TMV retail and trade in are both overstated.
I've seen this happen, several times. I have to take $3-4000 off TMV trade in and retail when trying to figure out what's going on.
And those not in the know they get trade-in shock during the buying process. no wonder why most people hate buying cars.
#143 of 180 Re: Have other edmund's users found TMV to be realistic? [g3750]
Mar 28, 2011 (7:59 am)
I must admit that I no longer trust Edmund's for information. On several occasions over the past two years I have participated in purchasing new vehicles. In each case, the price paid was considerably less than the TMV.
Just this month, I assisted my child to purchase a new Nissan. Edmunds' TMV was about $23,500. My child told me, based on Edmunds, that price seemed fair. I cautioned against relying on Edmunds'TMV based on my recent experience.
I easily obtained quotes from various dealers for this vehicle for about $22,000, which is what we paid. I understand the TMV is puportedly an average paid, but $1,500 is too significant to attribute to averaging.
My child also indicated the value of her trade-in, also based on Edmunds, was about $10,000. Once again I cautioned against relying on Edmunds for information. We got $11,500 for the trade.
For this purchase, we save about $3,000 by looking beyond Edmunds for information. Sadly, I have found this to be common.
Sadly, I tend to also be in the camp that Edmunds may no longer be a trusted source of consumer information. I too suspect an allicance of some sort between Edmunds and car dealers. My advice is too use Edmunds with caution.
#144 of 180 Re: Have other edmund's users found TMV to be realistic? [ken117]
Mar 28, 2011 (9:45 am)
What y'all also need to realize is that the uninformed buyer pool is much larger than the informed one. So for every person that does their research and pays bottom dollar for a car, there are probably 4-5 who walk in blind and get taken for a ride. So I really have no trouble believing the $1500 difference in TMV vs bottom price.
Just think of all the people you know. How many do thorough research before buying a car? Out of my immediate family of 7 households, I am the only one. If I look at my workplace of 80 employees, I might be able to find a handful of informed and savvy car shoppers.
#145 of 180 Re: Have other edmund's users found TMV to be realistic? [ken117]
Mar 28, 2011 (2:16 pm)
My name is Itai and I'm the TMV pricing expert here at Edmunds.
I apologize for the discrepancies you experienced when using TMV during your most recent experience when shopping for a new vehicle.
Sometimes, there can be specific reasons why the new TMV price may be lower than the actual price you receive from a dealer. The reasons vary by vehicle, dealership, and region, but may be because there may be regional incentives offered to dealerships, or supply & demand for the specific vehicle may be different in your region.
However, I would like to investigate your specific discrepancies in detail. At your earliest convenience, if you can, please provide me with information regarding the specific vehicles which you are referring to, and I will further research the discrepancies in price.
For the trade-in vehicle, you can include year, make, model, options, mileage, condition, and your zip code. Regarding your new Nissan vehicle, please let me know as much information as possible, including year, make, model, color, and options.
I appreciate your feedback.
Please let me know if there is anything else I can assist you with.
#146 of 180 Re: Have other edmund's users found TMV to be realistic? [itairockstar]
Mar 29, 2011 (4:29 am)
MY concern regarding Edmunds TMV is that it does not provide the complete picture to prospective car buyers. It does not provide the car buyer all the tools necessary for the buyer to get a good deal.
For example, right now in my area, for a 2011 Nissan Maxima, 3.5 SV with an MSRP of $34,860, Edmunds lists the TMV at $31,675. For essentially the same vehicle, with an MSRP of $34,855, True Car lists the selling price at $28,422. I have found I can usually negotiate a selling price with a dealer which is a bit less than the True Car price. I would not be happy if I had paid a dealer $31,675 based on TMV and then found I could have purchased the same vehicle for $28,422 with no haggling!
Edmunds would better serve consumers if it provided a complete array of recent purchases, showing the varous prices comprising the TMV. Certainly Edmunds provides valuable informatoin to consumers but with a little work it could be much more valuable.
It certainly appears Edmunds TMV is currently more valuable for the car dealer than the car buyer.
#147 of 180 Re: Have other edmund's users found TMV to be realistic? [ken117]
Mar 29, 2011 (10:57 am)
Thanks again for replying to my question and for providing me with more details and numbers on the new 2011 Nissan Maxima 3.5 SV you just purchased.
I wanted to let you know that I already forwarded your specific feedback regarding the 2011 Nissan Maxima 3.5 SV to the Pricing Manager in charge of updating both our new and used TMVs. He will take all of your information into consideration as he is reviewing pricing and will make adjustments if necessary.
I will also forward your suggestions for our Web site to the Pricing Product Manager.
I want you to be aware that we are listening to your concerns and will take all of your feedback into consideration as we look to improve the site in the future. Your input is greatly appreciated.
Last but certainly not least, I wanted to congratulate you on your new car purchase!!
I hope this information is helpful to you and please feel free to submit another forum post or a specific inquiry through our CRM system when/if you have any additional questions, comments, and/or concerns.
I will be glad to assist you any way I can.
Edmunds.com Pricing Analyst and TMV-Pricing Subject Matter Expert
#148 of 180 Re: Have other edmund's users found TMV to be realistic? [itairockstar]
Apr 04, 2011 (11:08 am)
I'm glad I visited this thread.
I thought edmunds TMV was straight up & accurate.