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Natural Gas - The Next Big Fuel? - READ ONLY

32 messages,  Last post on Jul 27, 2011 at 6:27 AM

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What is this discussion about? Alternative Fuels

Messages Page 2 of 4

#3 of 32 Re: Natural Gas - The Next Big Fuel? [gagrice] by steve_ HOST

Jul 07, 2011 (1:56 pm)

Replying to: gagrice (Jul 02, 2011 6:44 am)
Another blurb:
 
"As of June 15, there were 889 compressed natural gas (CNG) stations and 44 liquefied natural gas (LNG) stations in the U.S., compared to about 2,600 propane stations, almost 2,400 E85 stations and 2,102 publicly accessible electric-vehicle charging stations, according to the U.S. Energy Department's Alternative Fuels and Advanced Vehicles Data Center (AFDC). There are about 125,000 gasoline stations in the U.S. "[GM] always had the philosophy that engines are their core technology, and they don't like to farm out stuff, so for them to team up with Westport to bring out a GM-branded (CNG) engine isn't too much of a surprise," Hurst said in an interview. "The cost of the fuel is significantly lower, but people are just concerned about being able to find it, and there's just not the awareness of it amid the push towards electric drive."
 
Westport And GM To Develop Natural Gas Engines (AutoObserver)
 

#5 of 32 Re: Natural Gas - The Next Big Fuel? [steve_] by robr2

Jul 10, 2011 (11:35 am)

Replying to: steve_ (Jul 07, 2011 1:56 pm)
I wonder if the key is offering at home refueling capability to those of us with natural gas?
 
One question I have is if natural gas is so plentiful in the US, why do we import it? About 300 yards behind my office is an LNG port that processes gas from Trinidad. Why?

#6 of 32 Re: Natural Gas - The Next Big Fuel? [robr2] by plekto

Jul 11, 2011 (8:42 am)

Replying to: robr2 (Jul 10, 2011 11:35 am)
The U.S. still has decades-old contracts and agencies and so on that are still in effect from the Cold War. We import it because of idiotic mandates that say that we need to have enormous stockpiles and deplete foreign reserves if possible before really touching our own massive reserves.
 
We pay $4 a gallon mostly because we're saving our own oil for a war that will never come. We also do this with many other items. It was a great idea in the 80s. Now, it's not. But it's impossibly hard to unravel all of the B.S. and pork from a thousand different bills and departments and agencies. And nobody seems to want to bother with it - it's easier to just ignore it for the next term.
 
And then there is the fact that a lot of cities now mandate CNG for their public fleets. Not because it's cheaper or cleaner (it is) but because the law (now) says so. Which makes it a huge profit item for these companies.
 
Still, if you ask ANY person who drives a CNG Civic, they love it. $2 a gallon is a great thing. And nobody cares if it's magic green goo or blue genie farts or whatever if it's cheap, you can put it in your tank in a few minutes, and your car runs on it. There's no reason we HAVE to use gasoline or diesel for our vehicles.

#7 of 32 Re: Natural Gas - The Next Big Fuel? [steve_] by gagrice

Jul 11, 2011 (5:32 pm)

Replying to: steve_ (Jul 07, 2011 1:56 pm)
CNG is very very limited in availability and range. If you have a PHILL and can make it on your commute that is great. If you have to depend on stations in your area. I would advise reading the comments. For the few stations in my area, they seem to be broke or only partially able to fill your CNG tank much of the time. I don't think the UP is a good place to own a CNG vehicle. You can get some cheap gas, but have to drive to So Michigan or Green Bay Wis.
 
http://www.cngprices.com/

#8 of 32 Dangers of CNG by carpedrewum

Jul 13, 2011 (1:26 am)

Although CNG is great, cheap and so on, I think the Fracking process may hinder the rise of CNG.
People are still concerned that the fracking process, if not done right, leads to water pollution as the chemicals form the process may leak into the natural water well that supplies cities with water. I'm not some pro petrol or diesel freak but just thought I should mention this. Fracking can be safe as long as companies don't cut corners, motivated solely by profits.
 
You can find out more in this cool YouTube video which combines music, cartoons and science; aptly named Edutainment! ha ha!
 
http://youtu.be/timfvNgr_Q4
 
here's an info-graphic as well: http://bit.ly/qJCqi0

#10 of 32 Re: Dangers of CNG [carpedrewum] by texases

Jul 17, 2011 (3:11 pm)

Replying to: carpedrewum (Jul 13, 2011 1:26 am)
You're correct, there is lots of fear of fracking...almost all of it unwarrented. There are just about 0 proven cases of these new wells fracturing into fresh water aquifers. Those 'water on fire' videos result from shallow gas (a few hundred to a thousand feet deep) migrating into an aquifer, typically from an old shallow gas well in the area. It is actually easy to 'fingerprint' the gas to determine its source. There have been thousands of these deep fractured wells in the North Texas area, with no known examples of aquifer contamination. This is an area with over 2 million people. And the move 'Gasland' is 99% BS.

#11 of 32 Re: Dangers of CNG [texases] by steve_ HOST

Jul 17, 2011 (4:22 pm)

Replying to: texases (Jul 17, 2011 3:11 pm)
What do you mean by new wells? Were the three private wells contaminated in PA before the fracking started? Seems kind of odd that Chesapeake would be footing the bill for temporary water tanks and filtration systems if the wells were already bad. (Pollution found in Pa. wells near site of blowout - York Dispatch).
 
Be curious to see what the EPA test results say. Meanwhile Maryland is suing Chesapeake for spilling the fracking fluids.
 
I think part of the problem is that people assume that the water and chemicals pumped a mile down to release the gas is going to stay down there, but it sounds like more than half comes back to the surface.

#12 of 32 Re: Dangers of CNG [steve_] by texases

Jul 17, 2011 (5:32 pm)

Replying to: steve_ (Jul 17, 2011 4:22 pm)
Companies are bending over backward in some cases to try to help. And yes, the article indicates that the wells were contaminated earlier. If something happened as a result of a blowout, that's not the fracking stage. I don't think that anyone that looks into fracking would think the frac fluid stays underground. Dealing with that fluid when it's produced back requires care. The major issues in North Texas have been temporarty noise and air pollution during the drilling phase, along with heavy truck traffic at that time.
 
This technology has resulted in gas prices dropping, they're now about 1/2 of what they would be without all the new gas production. This is saving us billions of dollars a year. Like every human activity there are some risks. But the fears are many times greater than the reality.

Messages Page 2 of 4

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