Last post on Jul 27, 2011 at 6:27 AM
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#13 of 32 Re: Dangers of CNG [texases]
by steve_ HOST
Jul 17, 2011 (5:34 pm)
I don't think that anyone that looks into fracking would think the frac fluid stays underground.
Except, ahem, yours truly.
I know that drilling mud comes back up but I figured the water replaced the gas volume in the rock and stayed there.
#14 of 32 Re: Dangers of CNG [steve_]
Jul 17, 2011 (6:09 pm)
Sorry...what happens it that a large fraction comes back up as the well is brought on production. As the well 'cleans up' the frac fluid production pretty well stops. A closed system of piping and separators captures the frac fluid. Done correctly, no spills occur.
#15 of 32 Re: Dangers of CNG [texases]
by steve_ HOST
Jul 17, 2011 (6:30 pm)
And nothing ever gets spilled in the bay or the Gulf or on the Slope or in the Clinch River.
With all the solid waste generated in the US, maybe the next big fuel should be biogas from the landfills.
#16 of 32 Re: Dangers of CNG [steve_]
Jul 17, 2011 (6:40 pm)
If you wish to live with no risk, why do you drive a car?
Seriously, more gas is spilled by folks filling up in gas stations that the small percent of diesel in the largely-water-based frac fluid. The scaremongers have created a crises where the incidents are small and resolved.
#17 of 32 Re: Dangers of CNG [texases]
by steve_ HOST
Jul 17, 2011 (8:13 pm)
I try to mitigate my risk as much as possible. Big corp is focused on the quarterly profit and loss statement and lets stuff like pipeline inspections slide. Frackers deserve close attention and meaningful regulation too.
Got an EPA link for the spillage btw? All I see are blog references to "American homeowners spill 17 million gallons of gasoline annually" but nothing at the EPA site to verify that claim. Or is this from the Railroad Commission of Texas? Sounds like one Snopes needs to look at - NY is saying it too. (link). Probably buried in some reg somewhere.
#18 of 32 Re: Dangers of CNG [steve_]
Jul 17, 2011 (8:19 pm)
Fracking is already heavily regulated, with more on the way. My point is to do meaningful regulation, but not irrational banning of the process based on biased claims like those in 'Gasland'. Folks are being encouraged to think that America's fresh water is somehow in mortal danger. Nothing could be further from the truth. I have worked on fracture designs, and exending fractures vertically is difficult, and to have them extend over a mile from the shale reservoirs into the shallow aquifers is near-impossible. More to the point, doing so would be a HUGE waste of money for the developer. And you can count on them not to waste huge amounts of money.
#19 of 32 Re: Dangers of CNG [texases]
by steve_ HOST
Jul 17, 2011 (8:39 pm)
Nice to have someone in the biz posting here. Sometimes I think I'm paying about as much for a gallon of water as gas (~$80 a month currently for two of us, including sewer and paying off water bonds), and it does give me pause to think how much is used industrially for everything oil related, not to mention how much it takes to manufacturer solar panels.
#20 of 32 Re: Dangers of CNG [steve_]
Jul 18, 2011 (6:42 am)
I just wish we had natural gas out our way. The service ends about a mile from here. Propane on average is about 50% higher.
In CA the biggest water users are the Mega Ag industry. It takes a lot of water to make the desert bloom. When I thought about a place out in the desert I was surprised to find I could get water to raise crops for 1/30th of what we are paying in San Diego for household water. Also a big user of Natural gas is the production of Hydrogen which is mostly used for fertilizer. So if we produce more of our electricity with NG. I don't see how we can also power our cars with it. If we have that big of an abundance, we need to get it to folks in the NE that are still heating with fuel oil (diesel). All of which is without any pollution control as far as I can tell.
#21 of 32 Re: Dangers of CNG [gagrice]
Jul 18, 2011 (7:57 am)
Done correctly, no spills occur.
Well, sure. That applies to deep ocean drilling, nuclear plants, etc. The problem is largely when someone decides to cut corners.
I agree that the trick is regulation based on the science.
Gary - Do I hear you about propane! When our house was built there was no gas line here. We knew it was coming so put up with propane in the interim. Expensive, takes forever to heat a pot of water.....
#22 of 32 Re: Dangers of CNG [fezo]
Jul 18, 2011 (8:29 am)
Well, it was my comment on spills. And we're talking water with some chemical additives, not radioactive waste. Not to minimize the problem, but spills of this type are not difficult to clean up and would not lead to permanent damage. The problem is keeping the issues and risks in perspective. A minor, easily-remediated spill on one of a thousand frac jobs is not anything like the other problems you mention.