Last post on Jul 28, 2011 at 4:56 PM
You are in the Automotive News & Views-Archives
What is this discussion about?
#17 of 36 voters don't want an increased gas tax
Jul 04, 2011 (10:12 pm)
and I think will punish any politician who raises it more than 5 cents a gallon...
So I'd say don't waste your time hoping for that one. But I agree it would help.
I believe in CAFE and I think it has already helped bring about a revolution in internal combustion engines since 1975.
56mpg is really more like 42 by the way the mpg is measured today. A few cars are already reaching or exceeding that standard 12 years before 2025. Another decade of progress on ICEs should make it work for cars. Trucks, SUVs, and Vans are tougher, but I think they can be done too with smart engineering.
#18 of 36 Re: voters don't want an increased gas tax [benjaminh]
Jul 05, 2011 (3:02 am)
I think that CAFE is politically expedient in the U.S., but not the best way to go. Which countries have achieved the greatest gains in mpg and lower carbon emissions, the U.S. and Canada, or Europe?
#20 of 36 Re: voters don't want an increased gas tax [hpmctorque]
Jul 05, 2011 (10:17 am)
How about if the use of the increased revenue from the increased tax could be specified (irrevocably)? What specified use or uses would lead you to support the increase?
#21 of 36 My last car will be a 2015 model
Jul 05, 2011 (12:54 pm)
These gas milage requirements will mean the end of SUVs and performance cars. Who is going to want to buy a 2025 Mustang with 90hp and an electric heater for power? I don't want to get too political but this is just more class warfare by the people in Washington. Unfortunately like many of the hairbrained schemes hatched in that city it will end up slamming the middle class. What did they say? An extra $10000 for a car that will get beat by a Tata Nano? Baloney.
I'm buying a 2015 Mustang GT and by 2025 I'll own the fastest car in America.
#22 of 36 class warfare?
Jul 05, 2011 (9:41 pm)
More likely it's a way to save the middle class money. Rather than spending c. $2500 a year on gas, as many people now do, a lot of people will be spending half of that by 2025, and some even less.
There will still be room for some sports cars. And very fast ones. I'd bet on it.
The SUVs, however, are likely to get a smaller and less powerful. That too is a good thing, imho.
Saw a bumper sticker the other day: "Support OPEC! Buy an SUV!"
There will still be SUVs after all this is said and done. They'll just get 35+ mpg.
#23 of 36 Re: My last car will be a 2015 model [oldfarmer50]
Jul 06, 2011 (7:10 am)
Don't forget that the mileage requirements are based on CAFE - Corporate Average Fuel Economy. They will have to average 62 MPG based on sales.
#24 of 36 Re: My last car will be a 2015 model [robr2]
Jul 06, 2011 (7:40 am)
yeah. And the number they are floating now is not 62 but 56. Furthermore 56 is by the inflated way of calculating mpg that the feds came up with in 1975. By today's more realistic figure the real number is likely to be something like 42.
So, with c. 42 the real target, by sales weighted average some can be below that, even substantially below, as long as they are balanced by vehicles above that.
If Ford, for instance, pops out hundreds of thousands of Fiestas a year with advanced 3 cylinder ecoboost ICE engines that get 60 mpg by the 1975 measure, that would allow them to sell a few 6 cylinder ecoboost (turbo) Mustang's that will probably equal in performance any mass production Mustang built and still let Ford meet CAFE in 2025.
#25 of 36 We've seen this movie...
Jul 06, 2011 (10:31 am)
When CAFE standards were first proposed that was supposed to be the end of performance cars. It was for a little while but then the technology evolved that allows better performance and that's because the makers knew that people wanted it.
The bottom line is that the cost of fuel is a bigger determinant of how much performance you can have than CAFE Standards. How far are you gonna go in a 30MPG Mustang if gas is $8.00/gal?
#26 of 36 Re: We've seen this movie... [andys120]
Jul 06, 2011 (11:08 am)
What andys says makes total sense.
But I think we will have performance. A Ford 2.0 ecoboost turbo has about as much power as a 5.0 V8 from the 80s. And yet it's dramatically more efficient. Pop that puppy in a mustang and you're done. Don't even need to worry about making it a hybrid. You'll still have to sell some 1.0 liter ecoboost fiestas, but that can and will be done...