Last post on Apr 11, 2012 at 9:11 AM
You are in the Honda CR-V
What is this discussion about?
Honda CR-V, Toyota Sienna, Honda Odyssey, Car Buying, Car Comparisons, SUV, Van
#8 of 17 Re: Get the CRV [wwest]
by kyfdx@Edmunds HOST
May 07, 2011 (7:23 am)
Your "new" '07 Highlander is NOT AWD, not even close.
It might not fit your definition.... but, it sure fits the generally accepted terminology for an AWD vehicle..
Most people that drive them have no problems getting where they are going in inclement weather.. They don't really care about the theoretical..
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#9 of 17 Re: Get the CRV [FedEx]
May 07, 2011 (8:33 am)
"..fits the generally accepted terminology for an AWD..."
Yes, it does, and that's a real shame, MARKETING wins yet again.
It's not easy selling a sow's ear as a silk purse but automotive industry marketing has pulled the wool over the general buying public's eyes yet again.
We don't get a lot of inclement weather around here, at least not much that requires a true "AWD" system. But we do get enough to make note that it is these wannabe "AWD", F/awd systems, that we see helter-skelter scattered along our roads and freeways at those times along with their closely related brotheren, 2WD and FWD vehicles.
I don't do much snow skiing these days but even back when I did it was easy to note which "AWD" vehicles were functional and which were not.
It isn't just theory, those TC, TDC, "AWD" disable switches are very, VERY REAL, FACTUAL. Now, why do you suppose one would have the need to disable a perfectly good, functional, AWD system in order to get unstuck in your "inclement" weather...?
And by-the-by, those wannabe "AWD", F/awd systems, would more likely than otherwise have a substantive level of true "AWD" capability were it not for the wheelspin braking being INSTANTLY accompanied by FULL and COMPLETE engine dethrottling.
So why not make use of the TC firmware control programming capability TC-i (TDC-i ??) to cut the driver a little "slack" in that department, give the driver free reign with the DBW system for at least a few seconds. The firmware could most certainly detect when and if the driver is being abusive with the system rather that constructive. Undoubtedly the braking system could endure a few seconds of abuse without overheating to the point of potential failures, rotor warping, etc, down the road.
Oh, sorry, overlooked something rather important.
Unleashing the DBW system in this situation for a rear based, biased, "AWD", R/awd system, to add a bit of functionality, could be done with relative safety, no real threat to directional control.
Not so with F/awd.
F/awd systems MUST be treated much the same as a simple FWD system, regain traction IMMEDIATELY using the brakes and engine dethrottle or risk life and limb to loss of directional control.
But that still "begs" the question, why have the switch disable the F/awd system entirely...? Why not have a 2 stage switch, initial action disables only engine dethrottling, still putting any potential liability squarely upon the driver.
But then as long as marketing is able to sell the non-functional system....why bother...?
#10 of 17 It's not just marketing..
by kyfdx@Edmunds HOST
May 07, 2011 (12:51 pm)
I drove two different "Real time 4WD" Honda CR-Vs for ten years, total...
It's as far from a "real" AWD system that you can get.... but, guess what? I never got stuck, I never had an accident, and I never stayed home due to inclement weather.. The extra boost from the occasional rear wheels kicking in, is exactly what's needed, most of the time...
I had a "real" 4WD Pathfinder for three years in the '90s...drove it in RWD about 99.8% of the time. As far from useless in real-world driving as you can get.
For most people, the "fake" AWD is a perfect solution to what they need.
#11 of 17 Re: It's not just marketing.. [kyfdx]
May 07, 2011 (6:21 pm)
..."real time 4WD" Honda CR-Vs.."
"..It's as far from "real" AWD system that you can get.."
The Honda CR-V's real time 4WD is just exactly what it says.
The CR-V 4WD system uses a hydraulic fluid pumping system mounted inline with the rear driveline. If both the input to the pump assembly and the output are turning at the same speed no hydraulic pressure is produced. Should a differential F/R rotation rate develop the resulting hydraulic fluid pressure will LOCK the rear driveline to the front.
Like a VC, the level of locking will depend on just how desparate teh F/R rotation rates varies.
"...I never got stuck.."
Action is somewhat close to the VC Chrysler used in the T&C....
We have owned 3 T&Cs, a '98, '99, and a 2000. My daughter still drives the 2000. That car's only major short-coming is the lack of good solid braking.
While unique to the CR-V this systems actually does operate in REAL-TIME.
It has surprised me over the years that the CR-V 4WD design was not more widely adopted.
#12 of 17 Re: HONDA CRV 2011 vs. MiniVan/large SUV for family of 4 [rickschreiber]
May 09, 2011 (7:38 am)
We just traded in our CR-V for an Odyssey. Similar family circumstances with 2.5 yr old and infant. We found our 06 CR-V just too small. Last year with only 1 kid, the CR-V was packed to the gills for our week trip to the beach. Maybe you guys are ligther packers, but we were going to need roof storage for this year's trip if we kept the CR-V. My wife really loves the power sliding doors on the minivan for kids at this age. Easy for her to pop them open when have a lot of stuff. That's an option not available on any SUV or crossover. Another consideration for us was that we live far from our families, so they always fly in and we often goo on several roadtrips a year to visit. With the CR-V and two kids, we'd have to take two cars everywhere when the grandparents visit. With the van, everyone can fit comfortably on outings. Good luck!
#13 of 17 Re: HONDA CRV 2011 vs. MiniVan/large SUV for family of 4 [justiciability]
May 13, 2011 (2:12 pm)
Thanks for everyone's suggestions.
#14 of 17 larger suv vs minivan?
Feb 16, 2012 (12:14 pm)
i drive a subaru tribecca now and love the handling especially in the winter but the cargo and kid space is getting maxed out. my kids love being in a minivan (lots of room for them and their stuff) but i'm not sure i can reasonably drive a fwd minivan in the winter after having awd. Can anyone give me a comparision on the 2 ? i love the idea of the minivan but am concerned that i will hate it after 1 winter (upstate ny so snow and ice)
#15 of 17 Re: larger suv vs minivan? [ardcp]
by Stever@Edmunds HOST
Feb 16, 2012 (12:53 pm)
I like my older minivan better than my older Outback but my Outback is set up better for winter driving up here in the UP so it gets the most use this time of year. Hardly drive it in the summer though.
I drove a FWD minivan in Anchorage for ~10 years and did fine there. But I had studded tires to get moving from the black ice intersections and didn't have steep driveways to go up. I used my FWD Tercel for ski trips because it was lighter and got up the hills better.
Here in the UP it's flat so I think I could put Nokians or Blizzaks on the van and mostly do okay. We don't get as much snow as you guys get though, I don't think. Nothing's much fun to drive when 8 inches falls and it starts blowing around.
Any chance you could keep the Tribeca for a winter or two and see how a van works out?
#16 of 17 Re: larger suv vs minivan? [ardcp]
Feb 22, 2012 (11:42 am)
Correct footwear to match the conditions can make a world of difference. Frankly, I think it might be even more important than how power gets to the ground, as tires have a first order impact on braking & steering, and not just getting started. Even on my 2002 Subaru Outback, one of the more capable AWD cars on the road thanks to itís limited slip rear & electronically controlled center diffy, winter tires completely transformed the way the vehicle drives in bad weather.
Iíve run winter tires on both our FWD Odyssey and Sienna. While itís not as confidence inspiring as a good AWD setup, a FWD drive van with traction control and sticky tires with ice optimized tread will get you thru.
As a NY'er, I share your concern. But think of the cars we drove in college. In the mid 70's I regularly trekked across the Adirondack Park in a '72 Mercury Montego with bias ply snows on the back. We survived....
Apr 11, 2012 (9:11 am)
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