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BMW X3, Car Leasing, SUV
#547 of 1097 Negotiating on Money Factor
Aug 31, 2007 (6:44 pm)
I turned in a 525i last August; was told I'd have 12 months to return and get a break. I did so and was told, no it is 6-months. I calculated the current X3 lease special offer on the BMW website to be a money factor closer to .00150, but am certain my math could be bad even with the lease calculator.
My visit to the dealer was over a 2007 X3 with various packages in NM. The dealer quoted me an MSRP ~$43,500 and residual was ~$29,500. On a 36-month, 12K miles, $2500 down, they quoted $579/mo. I was taken back thinking I could do better. Near as I can tell that results in a money factor much more than .00215 (again, I don't get along with numbers).
When I returned home and did some calculation I am figuring that I should be able to negotiate pricing down to ~$41K or so. I also figure I can argue the .00150 as a returning lease customer where I was originally told I had 12 months. Based on those figures and my "lease calculator" entries I get my monthly down to ~$380.
The salesperson told me that the lease monthly payment does not vary much based on vehicle without options and those with. I tend to think that is wrong. They also said that the residual is based on MSRP (so then the difference financed remains fairly consistent) and why the previous statement was true. Therefore I should take that to mean that the lease payment should not vary that much between models with or without options. As I mentioned I am not sure that is accurate.
I would appreciate comments on negotiating the money factor, arguing for the returning lease customer discount. It would also be good to hear comments on comparing their offer to the online lease "special deal" on the BMW website. Finally, should I be negotiating on a vehicle with less options if I frankly don't need them to get the pricing down considerably.
I was surprised to see that their quote of $579/mo was almost $200 more than my calculation -- almost insulting. What I do know about numbers is an extra $7200 is a bad deal.
#548 of 1097 Re: Negotiating on Money Factor [nmkev]
by kyfdx HOST
Sep 01, 2007 (7:57 am)
I can't really comment on returning your old lease... except to say that if someone told you that you could turn it in with 12 months to go... was probably not being truthful..
As far as your other questions...
1) You have those money factors down pretty well... .00215 is the base rate for new customers. Current customers can get .0015. The difference between those two numbers on an average lease is about $43/mo.
2) Models with higher MSRPs are certainly more expensive to lease than lower MSRP models. The difference is not hard to figure... On zero-down leases, the prices should track the MSRP relatively closely.. So, if a $40K unit has a lease price of $500/mo., the a $44K unit should have a lease price of around $550/mo.
3) The BMW website is relatively useless, as far as computing real-world lease pricing. It pretty much ignores any lease specials.
4) Your current lease is the real wild card. I don't think the dealer can get you out of it, without taking it in trade, and that might involve some serious negative equity.
5) Dealers can mark-up money factors and acquisition fees for extra profit. Dealers usually don't like to get into the specifics of calculating the lease, so you can't see what you are actually paying for the car. You can probably get into a $43K X3 for around $500/mo., pre-tax, with all costs rolled in, other than the 1st payment and TTL. That is a very good deal, but you'll probably have to shop around and work for it.
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#549 of 1097 Re: Negotiating on Money Factor [kyfdx]
Sep 03, 2007 (8:32 am)
Update to this negotiation. Figured I would clarify something first, my 525i was turned in on time; I do not have a current lease. Rather the dealer sales person claimed as a returning customer to BMW on a previous lease I have 12-months to get a special deal on a new lease. We were running that clock out to the day only to learn they were incorrect according to the sales manager, it was 6-months. I am sure that is selective on their part.
Now what I learned on passing back to them my justification for the returning/existing customer money factor of .0015.
The response I got was that their buy rate for existing customers is .0015 and then their sell rate is .00255 for existing customers. So the best deal they could work was still higher than my calculations were, significantly in my opinion, for a lesser equipped vehicle (and more down and 10K miles). The manager agreed to argue for giving me the existing customer rate.
Since there is zero competition in this state for them I am certain they will eventually get the money they are holding out for, just not from me.
Still not sure I understand the negotiation parameters on a lease in any detail, but have learned some through this forum.
#550 of 1097 Re: Negotiating on Money Factor [nmkev]
by kyfdx HOST
Sep 03, 2007 (7:23 pm)
1) If the buy rate is .0015, the maximum sell rate is .0019...
If the buy rate for new customers is .00215... the maximum sell rate for them is .00255
So, as you can see... again, they are being untruthful. If you were truly eligible for the existing customer money factor, there is no way they could mark it up to .00255. Whether you are eligible or not, I can't say. But, it seems your dealer will say just about anything.
#551 of 1097 Re: Negotiating on Money Factor [kyfdx]
Sep 04, 2007 (11:26 am)
But, it seems your dealer will say just about anything. Oh I agree, and why I told them no thank you. I should be down around $450/mo on my calculations and they are no where close to that. Someone will give them $579/mo but not me. Thanks for the feedback it will help if they respond to my no thank you or just blow me off.
Sep 04, 2007 (8:33 am)
Does anyone know what the numbers might be for a CPO lease? looking at maybe an 04 or 05 X3 with 30k or so miles.
#553 of 1097 X3 Lease Question
Sep 30, 2007 (1:40 pm)
Family size has recently changed and now in the market for a smaller SUV. The BMW is a front runner with my wife on looks alone however due to some recent postings on acceleration issues and a lag I'm not to sure about pulling the trigger. From my point of view I have three front runners:
The Nissan has the largest cargo room of what we're considering, both the BMW and X3 seem to have better steering. It's been a while since I've test drove the Murano. Interior looks great on the FX, plain on the BMW. Infinity has the highest hp but MPG suffers drastically.
I'm looking to stay around the $399 per month mark? Love the sunroof on the BMW.
Any thoughts and if anyone else did a similar comparison I would love to hear it.
#554 of 1097 X3 Lease Question
Oct 03, 2007 (8:44 pm)
Are any of the extra fees on top of the price of the X3 + options negotiable when leasing? Such as:
Training & Service Fee - $180
MACO - $350
Doc Fee - $45
Aquisition - $825
License - $323
#555 of 1097 Re: X3 Lease Question [magnumx3]
by Car_man HOST
Oct 05, 2007 (2:14 am)
Hi magnumx3. Let's take a look at the fees that you listed. The License fee is charged by your state and it is not negotiable.
BMW charges a $625 acquisition fee on every vehicle that it leases. Individual dealers are allowed to mark this fee up by a couple hundred dollars to add additional profit to deals. There is a good chance that you will be able to get the dealer that you are working with to lower the acquisition fee to its base amount.
Most dealers charge a doc fee on new vehicle purchases and leases. A doc fee of $45 is very reasonable.
As far as the last two fees go, MACO and the Training fee, I am sure that they are expenses for the dealer. The question is should they be broken out separately so that you have to pay them or should the dealer just be paying them out of their profit from the deal. I usually advise consumers to focus on the big picture, the out-the-door price, rather than letting dealers cloud things by trying to add all sorts of fees to deals. As long as you are getting the lowest total price for the X3 that you are interested in, it doesn't really matter how it breaks down. Get a few price quotes on similar vehicles from other dealers in your area and go with the one that offers you the lowest total price.
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#556 of 1097 Looking at some demo 2007s vs. 2008
Oct 05, 2007 (9:12 am)
I was debating some demo or 2007 x3's with like 10k miles.
I am looking to lease either for 24 months, with 10k miles/yr.
What are the current residuals/money factors involved?
Would it be any different/beneficial on these 2007s with miles on them?