Last post on Aug 06, 2013 at 4:17 AM
You are in the Hyundai Sonata Hybrid
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Hyundai Sonata, Sedan
#129 of 188 Toyota/Ford/Nissan vs Hyundai
Sep 20, 2011 (7:57 am)
I believe the specifics are that Ford 'gave' Toyota diesel engine technology while Toyota 'gave' Ford hybrid technology. I think comparison of the Fusion Hybrid to Camry Hybrid is not fair. The Camry hybrid came out first and has essentially been unchanged whereas the Fusion hybrid came significantly later I think. For example, the new 2012 Camry is far better than the Fusion. I don't think it speaks to Toyota hybrid vs Ford hybrid.
I disagree with the comment that most driving is city driving though. Some people do a lot of highway driving and the highway testing doesn't mean that they don't stop; it just is less stop and go than the city test method. I used to drive a 2010 prius, got 48-56mpg no matter how I drove it although I did see it drop when I consistently drove above 55mph. Sonata we can see a significant difference, if I drive my normal highway routes I can do above 40mpg full tanks, if I do a lot of city driving or if I get a lot of traffic, it goes down to about 37mpg.
The two systems are fundamentally different; Toyota/Ford/Nissan uses 2 electric motors geared together; you can run the main electric motor to very high RPM even at low speeds to get huge torques in the city. Sonata (and Honda) uses a far simpler method whereby the engine is coupled to the electric motor which is coupled to the transmission. Therefore we can't get the incredible gearing ratios on the electric motor that the Toyota/Ford/Nissans can but we can achieve far higher vehicle speeds on electric alone. Hyundai adds a clutch between the electric and engine to allow pure electric drive. I read somewhere that Toyota actually wanted to do this method when they were making their Synergy drive but the controls systems back then for the clutch was insufficient to get a smooth ride. The simpler method Hyundai uses is theoretically more efficient.
#130 of 188 Basically The Same
Sep 21, 2011 (1:58 am)
Thanks for the correction.
Both Toyota and Ford are using first generation hybrid technology.
Nickle hydride batteries and droning CVTs.
It's relatively inexpensive and dependable (except for the 1st Highlander Hybrids).
Hyundai spent a boatload developing their own hybrid system which was designed and advertised to get better mpg on the highway.
Best "city" option may be the just released Prius plug in, the first Toyota - Lexus - Ford hybrid with lithium batteries.
#131 of 188 Re: Basically The Same [kyrpto]
Sep 21, 2011 (10:59 am)
I think they are heading in the right direction, but I also think their sales will suffer compared to the other hybrids getting higher city MPG where it counts the most.
As for the LiPo cells they use, I sure hope they gave a lot of thought to fire prevention with their packs. A short can cause a Lipo to burst into flames, and they are hot burners too. They also tend to swell when they get hot, so they need to be kept cool, but also suffer in cold weather moreso than NiMh do. The charge on them must be kept above a certain voltage and below a certain voltage, or the cells will be killed. On a Lipo, they will go down fast if not properly charged/discharged. I have some 1 cell 120mah packs for my ultra micro planes, and before I knew it, a few of them died due to poor charging practices. I had kept them topped off without using them and they eventually lost capacity. One I totally destroyed from a crash, it swelled to 4 times it's size and thankfully ran out of energy before it got hot enough to burn. Another I killed by discharging it past its fail point, and no longer holds a charge.
Fingers crossed the Hyundai system keeps track of all that so the packs last a long time.
#132 of 188 F1 Hybrids
Sep 21, 2011 (11:58 am)
Don’t think heat is a problem.
Formula 1 cars have used Lithium batteries for their KERS for years.
The introduction of the Kinetic Energy Recovery System that will eventually make every future Formula One race car a hybrid began in ’09.
F1 teams may use KERS to draw 60 Kw from the rear axle, store that energy and reuse it by pushing a 'boost' button. The system uses regeneration to collect and store energy during braking and allows the drivers to use 60 Kw (82 hp) for 6.6 seconds per lap.
Also included in the system is a KERS control unit. The battery pack is mounted at the bottom of the fuel cell and in the case of Ferrari is supplied by French Li-ion battery maker Saft.
The Sonata Hybrid has been the #2 selling hybrid - behind the Prius - all summer.
A lot of people must be looking for a “highway” hybrid.
#133 of 188 F1 Hybrids
Sep 21, 2011 (6:57 pm)
Yep, I just figure that with all these F1 race cars in such a high heat environment, sometimes even ‘reckin’ and never a mention of a Lithium battery pac doing anything abnormal, us civilian hybrid drivers are probably safe.
I remember early in the Toyota’s hybrid rollout, and especially after the Highlander Hybrids were introduced, when rumors of rescue personnel being killed by hybrid components were common. The info about the Hyundai battery pacs is reminiscent of that misinformation.
A Li-Polymer type battery is used for the Sonata Hybrid. The basic function of the battery system is to store, in chemical form, electric energy obtained either from the engine or regeneration and supply the stored energy as needed. Additionally, it has to manage input and output power based on the state-of-charge (SOC). The BMS (battery management system) performs accurate estimations of battery status and controls the temperature appropriately.
Compared to conventional NiMH batteries for hybrids, the Li-Polymer type battery of the Sonata Hybrid has a better performance in the power/energy density by weight and volume, self-discharge rate, life cycle, cold weather characteristics, SOC estimation etc.
http://www.atz-worldwide.com/index.php?mode=textansicht&articleKey=atzw-010-0462- -7&issueKey=2&volumeKey=2011&smart42SID=s292et2tk0rsnjgi81nqp0c9r3&smart42SID=s2- 92et2tk0rsnjgi81nqp0c9r3
#134 of 188 Don't touch the orange cables
Sep 25, 2011 (6:10 am)
Hmmmmm . . . . . .
the just introduced Chevy Volt, the new Honda Civic and the new Infiniti M are all using Lithium batteries.
#135 of 188 Re: Don't touch the orange cables [kyrpto]
Sep 25, 2011 (7:29 am)
LiPo's are great forms of energy storage, no doubt about it and I am glad to see them being used now in greater quantities. Knowing what I do about them though, does leave that question in the back of my mind, did they do everything they could to prevent a failure from a short, or a failure of the charging system that could cause an overcharge.
Here is a video, I hope I never see this happen with one of my RC packs.
Sep 28, 2011 (2:30 pm)
Bought the Hybrid today and drove 78 miles to Fayettville,N,C, to pick up.. from Cary.. Paid $500 over invoice.. Drove 79 miles home and got 44.5 MPG... Kept my eyes glued on the ECO MODE.. Look to have a great Hypermiler experience.. IE Coming in my development downhill and leaving on flat ground... I was doing 70 mph in ECO MODE on Highway !! JG
Sep 28, 2011 (2:34 pm)
Going to put either 17 or 18 in Michelins and rims on in the am after purchase today !! Any thoughts ??? Hanhooks 16 in standard on my Hybrid....
Sep 28, 2011 (3:40 pm)
Just make sure they are low rolling resistance tires.