Last post on Oct 29, 2013 at 10:48 PM
You are in the Acura TL
What is this discussion about?
Acura TL, Sedan
Jun 29, 2012 (7:28 am)
First Audi - 1978 5000 w/Power Pack (which meant everything on the car was power operated) - had a 5cylinder engine and a stick shift. FWD.
28 Audis later - Last Audi 2009 A4 2.0T Prestige Sport with every option except automatic cruise control.
Shopped for new A5 P+ and new A4 Prestige, several other contenders including, most notably an Infiniti G37X and an '12 Acura TL Advance SH-AWD with a couple of must have accessories, parktronic and splash guards.
Used carwoo.com to get quotes from four different makes and models.
In September of 2011, got an offer of 13% below MSRP for a new Acura. I should note that I test drove, in one day, back to back to back an Audi S4 P+ (DSG), an all optioned Cadillac CTS/4 w/sport package and 19" wheels, etc and an Acura TL Advance SH-AWD.
I thought the Acura and the Audi were of similar feel -- and with the UMBER leather, I thought the Acura had a fine interior (not up to the other two, but attractive.)
The 13% off sticker offer was too good to pass up, ended up with a black leather interior, my least favorite of the Honda, er, Acura leather color pallet.
The Acura is not hideous for 2012 -- there's the compliment. It drives great, performs well, is very efficient, has a better sound system than the B&O on my last Audi and feels bigger than an A4 even though the A4 has a longer wheelbase.
Getting behind the wheel of the Advance version of the TL SH-AWD, I quickly forget about the looks of the car and focus on the power, the smoothness and the overall soundness (very tight) of the chassis.
Why, dear lord, can't it just be purty(er)?!?
Then I reflect upon my typical daily use of the vehicle. There's a song by James Taylor, "Damn, this Traffic Jam" -- well it took me an hour an 6 minutes to make the 19 mile trip from my office to my house the other day. You figure out how the 305HP helped, how the SH-AWD ever got even a little activated and how I was lucky to use more than 5 of the 6 gears of the auto transmission (I still wish it had 8 speeds, however.)
At MSRP, this thing is north of $47K, the similarly equipped Audi A4 2.0T Prestige is north of $48K. The Cadillac was north of $51K. These cars -- all -- are overkill for bumper-to-bumper traffic or secondary roads limited to 45MPH and heavily patrolled.
The Acura's secret weapons: SH-AWD and the sound system. I feel confident that our mild winters have met their match in the Acura, even in bone stock trim (and tires). I know if I ever need it, too, that the SH-AWD will damn near banish understeer and make my TL a "high value" S4 clone.
I bet I would be really pissed if I had an S4 (having had an S6, which was my favorite car of ALL time) these days -- I mean, c'mon, most cars, even much less expensive cars are more than very competent to suffer -- in comfort -- their drivers and passengers to travel from home to work and back.
I keep telling myself, I'll go for something "more" next time. Then, I get behind the wheel of my wife's 2011 FX35 (Infiniti) -- and that thing is comfortable, powerful, fun to drive and more luxurious than any Acura I know of. I then tell myself, I don't need an S4 or Bimmer or even a Volvo S60 T6 -- I need a CUV (like the Infiniti) -- if I'm going to move along at an average clip of 20-30MPH, I might as well be comfy (and know there's still plenty of capability if this damn traffic jam ever ends!)
If you haven't test driven a TL Advance SH-AWD (not the FWD version, the AWD version), go for it -- you will be at least pleasantly surprised and possibly impressed.
Now, if they'd just make the TL even less hideous looking, I think they'd have a winner!
#106 of 135 Re: Long Time Audi Snob [markcincinnati]
Jun 29, 2012 (8:58 am)
Mark.....GF and I judt bought an S4. I considered the TL SH AWD (2010) to be close in some ways to it, far away in other areas (like styling, MMI, s-tronic, power).
Still, to get what the S4 offers, you pay a price....about $6K over a TL SH AWD Tech-Advance!
Is it worth it? To me and the GF, yes! To you, no! Then again, I love my BMW, too.
I've tried to like the G (and M). It's quick. But, that's all I can say about it. After that it falls behind all these other cars.
Jun 29, 2012 (10:17 am)
Other than the fact that Automobile magazine actually tested the two cars noted in the title, I cannot imagine anyone seriously considering an S4 would cross shop it with a TL. I would not have done it, save for the fact that I was keeping my powder dry in the "economy I just woke up to" which at least does a great job of pretending we're in recession.
So, the TL was, oddly, actually cross shopped with an Audi A4 2.0T prestige sport. An S4, comparably equipped -- comparable to a TL SH-AWD Advance, is about $11,000 more than the TL.
Now, "worth" and "value" are subjective, and I for one think the Audi is worth more but that the TL provides more value. Objectively, well $11,000 is cause for pause -- frankly, I would spend S4 money and get an A6 (and I believe for S4 Prestige money, I could get an A6 Prestige.)
Were I doing the comparing, I would say the A6 is a better value than the S4, since I would value the increased size of the A6 -- the A6 is "worth" more (to me) than the S4 equipped with the Acura SH-AWD Advance features, which can be replicated, mostly, on an S4 (for the above mentioned $11,000.)
Objectively, the S4 is the best performer -- it is provable, no opinion need apply. The A6 is probably the most comfortable (of the three - TL, S4 and A6) and the TL costs the least (pre discount, at least).
If I could have leased either the A4, S4 or A6 equipped as close as possible the TL, for similar money, wow, well I might have strongly considered the S4, but probably would have gone with the A6. The Acura's worth, from my perspective, is fine at 13% off MSRP -- it is also a high value. Without the discount, though, I would probably have re-upped for a '12 A4 2.0T Prestige with the sport package, all other stand alone options, and, this time, without the $3,000 Audi Drive Select option.
The A4 2.0T all decked out (and chipped) is "close enough" to an S4, that I would have re-enlisted with Audi. As it stands, I have a decent A6, C6 generation (internally designated) clone (perhaps as of the last year before the A6 got the supercharger.)
Even though the TL be puny in the engine dept, when compared to an S4, I continue to lament not being able to "open it up" from time to time, due to traffic, pedestrians, deer and geese.
Enjoy your S4 -- my guess is, it will become (over time) the car you remember most fondly. Like I said, my S6 remains my fave, the best car I ever had.
#108 of 135 Re: S4 vs TL [markcincinnati]
Jun 29, 2012 (2:27 pm)
Mark...I totally understand your logic. Makes sense.
I loved my TL while I had it. Got great trade value for it, too.
I have a 335i. My SO was in the market. She was considering an A4. We drove an S4 and both loved it (me more than her). Never really considered an A6. As you say, it's bigger, which is something we really didn't need.
Figured a TL Advance SH AWD would be about $46K.
Couldn't swing a deal at either of the Cincinnati Audi dealers. Ended up in Chicago and saved $4K off the best deal at either of the Cincinnati dealers (with a trade involved).
TL is a great car. Glad you enjoy yours.
#109 of 135 sotware tweaks and OEM magnetorheological shocks?
Sep 03, 2012 (10:45 am)
No doubt this is fantasy, but I just got my new SH-AWD manual Tranny TL and it does drive great. Am selling a modified 2000 2.7T MT Audi A6 (same size and weight as the MT TL, with mods to take peformance at least equal but can't quite match the SH TL's handling even as lowered with Bilsteins). Anyway, I see the 91 octane is needed, rather than 93. Is there a flash software mod out there that would somewhat increase engine performance/efficiency with 93? Also, equally improbable, is there some way to increase the torque vectoring in the rear, say in a "Sport" mode via software?
From an information standpoint, some Acura brochures tout their use of magnetorheological shock absorbers, but nowehere at the dealer or my brochure can I find anything on this (there is an allusion to a special shock valve system in the SH-AWD. Anyone know about that?
#110 of 135 Oh - try the Bridgestone Potenza 970 AS
Sep 03, 2012 (2:30 pm)
I had the dealer install these Ultra Hi-Perf All Seasons instead of the "Touring" class Michelins standard on the 18 inch TL SH-AWD. Tire Rack's recommendation. Awesome tire. Handles extremely well.
So honest, you other Audi-philes out there (and I am one). Does a A4 with Stasis mods and manual tranny (which does not offer torque vectoring) even stay with the TL as a performance car? Putting aside the seating room.
Yes, an S4 with the $4000 handling package/Torque vectoring system would out-handle the TL, and would be a smidge faster (1/2 sec 0-60), but try to find one. And then it is over $60k. I won't tell you what I paid for my TL, MT, Tech Package in an August deal environment, with rear sensors for parking added, but it was a LONG way from $60k. My other car is a 993 Porsche cab and I drive each one maybe 3k per year. Couldn't go for the S4, even if I could find one. Thought the A4 was too little and too slow.
TL blew me away. It is like a fast, solid grand touring sport coupe with lots of legroom for two rear passengers. (Yes, I hate the trunk and middle rear seat...)
#111 of 135 Re:Hit a button to record XM song
Sep 04, 2012 (9:55 am)
SO WHICH button do you hit while in XM listening mode?
Can you email me at chassocverizon.net with asnwer? Not sure I get replies on this forum yet. (Just bought my SH-AWD TL/Tech package, manual Tran to replace Audi A6 2.7T MT. If not, hopefully I get reply here.
#112 of 135 Re:Hit a button to record XM song [hadana6]
Sep 04, 2012 (1:16 pm)
If memory serves me right you only get 5 seconds of the song recorded which is under the Gracenote feature. I think you have to hold down the XM button- dont hold me to this, I discontinued my service after the 3 months of freebies expired and this was three years ago (I have the 2009 AWD TECH).
#113 of 135 Re: Oh - try the Bridgestone Potenza 970 AS [hadana6]
Sep 04, 2012 (3:59 pm)
Again, I love the TL SH AWD. But, saying it can remotely keep up with an S4 is silly. I've driven both. The S4 is substantially faster than the TL (2x-3x the 1/2 second delta you quoted). The S4 suspension and trans is a signficant step above, too.....as is the MMI and quality of materials.
But, as you point out, you pay a premium for those upgrades, too.
Ours was way under $60k.
#114 of 135 Re: Oh - try the Bridgestone Potenza 970 AS [graphicguy]
Sep 25, 2012 (12:35 pm)
Two unlikely to be cross-shopped cars were tested by Automobile magazine. They were "pretty much" contented at the same level for the test. Actually, based on a quick check, it seems the Audi was not as "contented" as the Acura. But, still the Audi was $10,000 more than the Acura and probably would have been perhaps $12K more if the Audi had been cranked up to match the features and options that come with the Acura at this price point.
I am not sure the Audi is "substantially" more of anything, other than price, according to what you will see that follows.
And, I don't know about keeping up with the S4 being silly -- check it out:
Acura TL SH-AWD 18" wheels and tires:
Price: $43,245/$44,245 (base/as tested)
Engine: 24-valve SOHC V-6
Displacement: 3.7 liters (224 cu in)
Horsepower: 305 hp 6300 rpm
Torque: 273 lb-ft 5000 rpm
Transmission: 6-speed manual
0-60 mph: 5.4 sec
0-100 mph: 13.5 sec
0-110 mph: 16.3 sec
0-120 mph: 20.5 sec
0-130 mph: 24.9 sec
0-140 mph: *
0-150 mph: *
1/4-mile (sec mph): 14.1 102
30-70 mph passing: 6.8 sec
peak g: 0.66 g
Audi S4 w/18" wheels and tires, too:
Price: $46,725/$54,075 (base/as tested)
Engine: 24-valve DOHC supercharged V-6
Displacement: 3.0 liters (183 cu in)
Horsepower: 333 hp 5500 rpm
Torque: 325 lb-ft 2900 rpm
Transmission: 6-speed manual
0-60 mph: 5.0 sec
0-100 mph: 11.5 sec
0-110 mph: 13.5 sec
0-120 mph: 16.4 sec
0-130 mph: 19.7 sec
0-140 mph: 23.4 sec
0-150 mph: 28.6 sec
1/4-mile (sec mph): 13.5 110
30-70 mph passing: 5.7 sec
Peak g: 0.69 g
"The Audi's extra thrust should have been a huge advantage at Pittsburgh's BeaveRun racetrack, which rewards straight-line speed with two long straightaways -- especially since, on paper, the Acura carries no advantage in cornering or braking: the two cars have similar weight, tire section width, and suspension designs. The Audi's slightly better weight distribution would, we thought, be nixed by the Acura's wider track. And we were right -- as expected, the cars posted similar braking and cornering numbers in standardized testing.
But on a racetrack, the TL showed us exactly why Acura used the word "super" to describe its Super-Handling All-Wheel-Drive system. Despite its significant power advantage, the Audi S4's fastest lap beat the TL's by only 0.4 second."
Read more: http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews/driven/1008_2010_acura_tl_sh_awd_vs_2010_au- - di_s4/viewall.html#ixzz27W19sjZI
I'm just sayin' . . .