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2012 Outback Diesel?

26 messages,  Last post on Feb 16, 2011 at 10:49 AM

You are in the Subaru Legacy & Outback Forum.

What is this discussion about? Subaru Legacy, Subaru Outback, Sedan, Wagon

Messages Page 2 of 3

#7 of 26 Thanks for the responses! by pilot1226

Feb 10, 2011 (12:53 pm)

Thanks for the responses. I live in NJ, so I can't pump my gas anyway (without getting dirty looks from the gas attendants) so I don't really care about the fueling thing.
 
As for the spark plugs, I started a thread a few weeks ago about the upcoming 30k service on my Legacy, in which the owner's manual instructs you to replace the spark plugs every 30k miles. (2009, 2.5 engine)
 
The range is nice, yeah.
 
I know several people that have diesels, primarily the Volkswagen TDI, that have been pretty pleased with the cost of ownership and maintenance.
 
A hybrid sounds nice, but I don't really think it's worth it overall. While true, you do reduce your amount of gasoline consumed, you're also creating some hazardous waste (the battery will EVENTUALLY have to get disposed of, somewhere, which will probably have ecological impacts). Even plug-in hybrids have issues - you're now creating more of a demand for electrical power, which means electricity production will have to increase - which is generated by burning coal, etc. in the majority of the country.
 
So, yes, we're "saving" carbon emissions by not burning as much gasoline, but now what? We're creating harmful waste and potentially more carbon emissions (among other things, like sulfur) by burning MORE coal to generate electricity for our plug-in hybrids.

#8 of 26 Re: Thanks for the responses! [pilot1226] by ateixeira

Feb 10, 2011 (1:20 pm)

Replying to: pilot1226 (Feb 10, 2011 12:53 pm)
Nickel-metal hydride batteries are less harmful than the lead-acid most regular cars have. You could bury them in soil and have a raised-bed garden.
 
That's not the case for Li-ion or newer tech batteries, though.

#9 of 26 Re: Thanks for the responses! [ateixeira] by robr2

Feb 10, 2011 (3:36 pm)

Replying to: ateixeira (Feb 10, 2011 1:20 pm)
And to add to juice's reply, the automakers themselves put a pretty high bounty on the battery packs to get them recycled. Toyota pays $200 for a Prius battery pack. They then recycle it to capture the precious metals which are reused.

#10 of 26 Re: Thanks for the responses! [pilot1226] by paisan

Feb 10, 2011 (7:32 pm)

Replying to: pilot1226 (Feb 10, 2011 12:53 pm)
Pilot, shoot me an e-mail about your 30k. paisanazpinstalls.com
 
-mike
Subaru Guru and Track Instructor

#11 of 26 Re: 2012 Outback Diesel? [ateixeira] by paisan

Feb 10, 2011 (7:36 pm)

Replying to: ateixeira (Feb 10, 2011 10:14 am)
You're probably right, but I think that's a bad strategy.
  
Given the relationship with Toyota, hedge their bets with Toyota doing hybrids and Subaru doing diesels.
  
This is putting all their eggs in one basket!
 
I love diesels myself but I understand they want to take advantage of the Toyota/Subaru connection and use their R&D to pump out some inexpensive CAFE killers so they can keep making STis!
 
-mike
Subaru Guru and Track Instructor

#12 of 26 Re: 2012 Outback Diesel? [clarkkent] by ipsofacto

Feb 11, 2011 (8:50 am)

Replying to: clarkkent (Feb 08, 2011 4:34 pm)
You are kidding right? what would be the advantage... The Forester diesel sold in Australia and significantly tested gets 31 mpg in the city versus 21 for the current gas Forester. That is a 50% increase mileage. On the hwy it is 41 mpg vs the gas version of 27 mpg. That is over 50% improvement. If we want to eliminate our dependence on foreign oil imports we could do that with everyone driving a diesel. Not to mention the longevity of the engine. Diesels typically run 200,000 to 500,000 miles. So the cost of an engine repair after that many miles doesn't seem unreasonable. As far as puddles of diesel, the same could be said for dog dodo.

#13 of 26 Re: 2012 Outback Diesel? [ipsofacto] by robr2

Feb 11, 2011 (9:23 am)

Replying to: ipsofacto (Feb 11, 2011 8:50 am)
The Forester diesel sold in Australia and significantly tested gets 31 mpg in the city versus 21 for the current gas Forester. That is a 50% increase mileage. On the hwy it is 41 mpg vs the gas version of 27 mpg. That is over 50% improvement.
 
No so fast there - keep in mind the Aussie gallon is 4.546 litres or 1.2 US gallons so bring down the improvement to only 30%.
 
And although diesel is a more efficient than gasoline, it's still made from oil. As long as we depend on oil, we'll be dependent on foreign sources.

#14 of 26 Re: 2012 Outback Diesel? [ipsofacto] by ateixeira

Feb 11, 2011 (9:29 am)

Replying to: ipsofacto (Feb 11, 2011 8:50 am)
we could do that with everyone driving a diesel
 
Not really, because each barrel of oil produces some gas and some diesel. They can't produce all diesel.
 
In fact demand would cause higher prices if diesel market share surged.
 
It's a delicate balance. Diesel already costs more than gas, the cost difference would go up if LOTS of new diesels showed up here at the same time.

#15 of 26 Re: 2012 Outback Diesel? [ateixeira] by robr2

Feb 11, 2011 (9:46 am)

Replying to: ateixeira (Feb 11, 2011 9:29 am)
In fact demand would cause higher prices if diesel market share surged.
 
...and that higher diesel price will also raise prices for almost everything we buy because at some point it's all transported on trucks and trains that use - what for it - diesel.
 
Just to show you how bad it can be, I handle logistics for my company. Trucking firms started adding fuel surcharges about 5 years ago when fuel started to spike. Today I'm paying around 5-7% surcharge on UPS/Fedex Ground and 22-25% on truck freght. That gets passed right along to the customer.

#16 of 26 Re: 2012 Outback Diesel? [robr2] by paisan

Feb 11, 2011 (4:24 pm)

Replying to: robr2 (Feb 11, 2011 9:46 am)
Also the diesel used outside the US is different than the stuff used here (Sulfur content IIRC) so that also factors into the milage attained by them.
 
-mike
Subaru Guru and Track Instructor

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