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F150 with the 3.5L twin turbo eco boost

237 messages,  Last post on May 31, 2013 at 11:53 AM

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What is this discussion about? Ford F-150, Truck

Messages Page 8 of 25

#62 of 237 Re: 2011 Ford F150 Eco Boost [bubbabud] by wwest

Jul 04, 2011 (10:13 am)

Replying to: bubbabud (Jul 02, 2011 6:58 am)
"...EcoBoost develops its max torque at lower RPM..."
 
Well, yes, but ONLY when WOT or very close thereby.
 
At lower RPM cruise mode, partial throttle openings, there is simply not enough WASTE exhaust energy to SPIN the turbine section, so the wastegate is left in the bypass position.
 
Therefore, in comparison, the Ecoboost engine does not provide a reasonable level of torque for simply cruising along towing even a light load, and certainly not uphill. In point of fact the Ford Ecoboost design actually sacrifices cruise power, MPG (***), in order to produce "stellar" WOT "on-boost" torque levels.
 
*** The "standard" compression ratio for DFI engines is now at 12-14:1, but Ford runs the Ecoboost in detuned/derated mode, ~10:1 CR during simple cruise mode in order to provide for the effective CR to be above 14:1 ONBOOST/WOT.
 
Take away the turbo and raise the CR to 12:1 and cruise HP/torque/mpg would rise substantually. Or adopt Toyota's E-VVT-i intake valve closing delay technique and run the engine with 12-13:1 CR, Otto mode, for cruising, and revert to 10:1 CR with the wategate closed, on-boost, simulated Miller cycle.

#63 of 237 Eco by cat125

Jul 04, 2011 (11:28 am)

So what does this really mean - it has torque but not optimal torque - the truck feels like its quick and light but yoiu are saying its not because of torque ???? its more a matter of speed and not power ??? what is WOT ???

#64 of 237 Re: 2011 Ford F150 Eco Boost [wwest] by ironjasper

Jul 04, 2011 (11:35 am)

Replying to: wwest (Jul 04, 2011 10:13 am)
I have an ecoboost F-150 with a 3.55 LS rear and it has plenty of torque for cruising (even up hill) without wide open throttle ..... I have not towed anything yet, but I would imagine when you do the gas mileage will suffer.
 
However, for normal cruising to work or around town there is plenty of power and the mileage has been about 18 mpg with 23 on the highway. This is even better than I expected.

#65 of 237 Re: 2011 Ford F150 Eco Boost [wwest] by dieselone

Jul 05, 2011 (7:40 am)

Replying to: wwest (Jul 04, 2011 10:13 am)
"...EcoBoost develops its max torque at lower RPM..."
  
Well, yes, but ONLY when WOT or very close thereby.
 
Duh, that's the case for any engine. Your posts are comical.
 
The 5.4 v8 in my Expedition produces something like 365ft-lbs of torque at 3600rpm or so and it has pretty good off idle torque output. Trust me, when I'm towing my boat or travel trailer, I MUST FLOOR it to get max towing power whether at 2k rpm or 4k+.
 
Have you ever driven a DI turbo engine? I've driven a few 4cyl DI turbos and I've found the power to be very linear. I never needed to floor them to get power and it they were noticeably more powerful at part throttle and low rpm vs a n/a 4cyl and v6's I've driven.

#66 of 237 Re: 2011 Ford F150 Eco Boost [dieselone] by wwest

Jul 05, 2011 (3:32 pm)

Replying to: dieselone (Jul 05, 2011 7:40 am)
"...I've found the power to be very linear..."
 
Yes, lots of "magical-like" things can be done with/in the DBW firmware between the accelerator pedal position sensors and the throttle plate servomotor.
 
The accelerator pedal can have a perfectly linear "feel" while the throttle plate (and Turbo waste-gate) movement can be totally erratic, non-linear, in response.

#67 of 237 Re: 2011 Ford F150 Eco Boost [wwest] by dieselone

Jul 05, 2011 (6:35 pm)

Replying to: wwest (Jul 05, 2011 3:32 pm)
Yes, lots of "magical-like" things can be done with/in the DBW firmware between the accelerator pedal position sensors and the throttle plate servomotor.
  
The accelerator pedal can have a perfectly linear "feel" while the throttle plate (and Turbo waste-gate) movement can be totally erratic, non-linear, in response.
 
That's all I care about is how well it works.
 
Ford is far from the only manufacturer using turbo charging with DI. You should be bashing VW, Mazda, BMW, Hyundai and others that use the same basic design. Turbocharging is not going away.
 
DI and high compression alone isn't going to produce usable torque like a much larger engine. Boost is currently the only way to do it.

#68 of 237 Re: 2011 Ford F150 Eco Boost [dieselone] by brucelinc

Jul 06, 2011 (7:32 am)

Replying to: dieselone (Jul 05, 2011 6:35 pm)
Good luck convincing wwest of anything.
 
One of the benefits of two small turbos instead of one big one is that they spool up and generate boost more quickly - even at part throttle. Most of the critics of the 3.5 ecoboost engine have never experienced it.
 
http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2010/09/2011-ford-f-150-ecoboost-v-6-photos-and-add- itional-engine-details.html
 
The above link shows the torque curve of the ecoboost at part throttle and at WOT. It also shows the torque curves of some competitors.

#69 of 237 Re: 2011 Ford F150 Eco Boost [brucelinc] by dieselone

Jul 06, 2011 (7:39 am)

Replying to: brucelinc (Jul 06, 2011 7:32 am)
Good luck convincing wwest of anything.
 
 
Oh I know.
 
The above link shows the torque curve of the ecoboost at part throttle and at WOT. It also shows the torque curves of some competitors.
 
Great post. Gotta love that torque curve even at...um part throttle.

#70 of 237 Ford F-150 Ecoboost by sevenman

Jul 11, 2011 (5:31 am)

I am a Retired 30 year Freightliner diesel mechanic. In those years I saw and had to learn the new technologies that would come out day in and out.Lets look at multiplexing for example.Who ever thought we could eliminate three quarters of the wires in a vehicle. And send signals over a twisted pair of wires?If we all believe in simplicity we should be starting our vehicles with hand cranks! I just purchased a new F-150 with ecoboost.I didn't buy a diesel due to cost and mileage issues.I have had it only two weeks but I love it so far!Lots of power!Very hard to believe that this is a 3.5 V6. TAKE A DRIVE

#71 of 237 Green socialist agenda by drillforoilnow

Aug 14, 2011 (7:29 pm)

Taking a V-6 turning it to high-RPM's and thinking it is going to last is not very smart. The cost of ownership will be very interesting espicially when you start talking turbo failure or complete gernading the fragile high-tech motor.
 
The entire 'Green' agenda is the stupidest thing on planet earth, for starters oil is naturally occurring but people have been brainwashed into thinking mother earth is going to implode.
 
Heat, electronics and turbos what a great match up, with the Ford Triton's blowing out spark plugs I can't wait till these get out in the field and start racking up dollars in repairs.
 
I find it quite hypocritical Al Gore & Oboma the planet messiah's do not stop flying around in 'Corporate Jets', BIG SUV's and living lavishly.
 
I hope the numbnuts enjoy the Keynesian economic policies and their 'green' unemployment benefits.
 
Keep this fragile truck, make sure you got the pocket book to fix it. *If* anyone can find one running after 5 years, I am sure it will be a money pit.
 
A diesel is the ONLY sane approach, however the 'greenies' will not allow it. So they build this POS 'eco crap'.

Messages Page 8 of 25

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