Last post on Feb 25, 2013 at 4:53 AM
You are in the Ford Focus
What is this discussion about?
Ford Focus, Ford, Car Buying, Future Vehicle, Coupe, Hatchback, Sedan, Wagon
Mar 24, 2011 (4:26 am)
I do believe that Ford found in its research that the American buying public doesn't know how to drive a stick or doesn't want a stick bad enough for them to build the Titanium model with a stick shift option. It is a dying breed, having said that, the 2012 Ford Focus that I love the most is the one with the stick, the SE. I liked the wheels I saw on it, too. Still interested in the car and I will not buy until 2013, so a lot can happen between now and then. Would love to get a good, competent stereo with the SE model, interested in how many watts the best stereo Ford offers in an SE model would have.
2012 Ford Focus SE in Alan Mulally blue...I...I mean Ford blue!
Man, I like the SE model in this blue. I am popping the 2012 Ford Focus SE in 5-speed manual trim back up above the 2012 Kia Rio on the top of my future purchases list. That is if Mitsubishi doesn't tempt me with another Lancer GTS or Lancer GTS Hybrid.
#188 of 1316 Re: shipo... [iluvmysephia1]
Mar 24, 2011 (4:51 am)
"I do believe that Ford found in its research that the American buying public doesn't know how to drive a stick or doesn't want a stick bad enough for them to build the Titanium model with a stick shift option."
I don't buy that argument even in the least. My bet is that Ford is basing their decisions on flawed data from the previous generation Focus (a horrifically boring vehicle that was semi-popular in stick form only because it was cheap) instead of looking at cars like the Mazda3 (a car which budget minded enthusiasts flock to). By contrast, the new Focus has completely shed its crappy econobox (in North American form) cloak and moved squarely into the enthusiast realm occupied by the Mazda3 and European variants of the Focus.
From a simplicity (in both marketing and manufacturing) perspective it would be so much cleaner for Ford to offer a manual (say the current 5-Speed) in a trim with limited options (call it SE-lite) for the economy minded folks of the same ilk that bought the previous Focus with a stick. For the folks which would otherwise opt for a Mazda3 GT 6-Speed they could offer the Titanium with say a 6-Speed manual. From my perspective, ugly though the new Mazda3 may well be (I like the looks of my current Mazda3 but it won't last forever) and with as poor as the relative fuel economy numbers are, I'm much more inclined to buy a new Mazda over the Focus simply because Mazda hasn't forsaken the enthusiast.
#189 of 1316 mpg diesel vs gas
Mar 24, 2011 (5:25 am)
15,000/40mpg x $3.5 gas price per gallon = $1312 Total price with Gas
15,000/50mpg x $4.0 diesel price per gallon = $1200 Total price with Diesel.
Or the formula is that (15,000 x $3.5) / 40 mpg = $1312. If you make mpg the variable, then the formula would be (miles x gas price) / total cost = mpg, or 15,000 x 3.5 / 1312 = 40mpg. So if you spent $1200 in diesel, the equivilant mpg for gas would be 15,000 x $3.5 / 1200 = 43.75mpg. So if you can get 44mpg in your gas car, than that's the same as getting 50mpg in a diesel.
I'd say based on your highway driving style, if you're able to obtain 50mpg in a TDI (that has an EPA estimated MPG of 42) then you can just as well obtain 44mpg in a Focus (that has an EPA estimated MPG of 40).
Of course these are just in the best highway conditions. Most folks won't be spending their time cruising down a flat highway at 60mph 100% of the time except maybe on long road trips. Average MPG is more likely what folks will get. And even calculating average mpg people get mixed up.
If a car can get 44mpg on the highway, but only 30mpg around town and if you drive 50% of the time on the highway and 50% around town, some folks would split the difference and say that their average was 37mpg...wrong.
If you drive a tank with 200 miles around town at 30mpg you'll use 6.67gal, and you'll use 4.54gal to drive 200 miles on the highway at 44mpg. That's 11.21gal used to drive 400 miles, which equals 35.68mpg, not 37mpg. It's not a big difference, but it can make more of a difference depending on the spread between your highway and city mpg. \
Even if you drive 400 miles and 90% (360miles 8.18gal) is on the highway at 44mpg, that 10% (40miles 1.33gal) of city at 30mpg will make your average mpg drop to 42.06 (9.51gal used to drive 400 miles). If your "real" city driving was only getting you 20mpg that 10% of your driving would drop your average down to 39.29mpg. So you really need to look at a lot more than just the highway mpg in the best possible conditions.
If you're prepared to spend in the low $20K range for a car to maximize mpg, you'd be better off buying a Prius II that averages 50mpg according to the EPA, (and like TDI and most other cars, people report getting better than the EPA estimates due to their driving habits) that comes in about the same price as the Golf in the below link. Of course not wouldn't be the time to buy one with the current fuel prices and situation in Japan.
http://www.edmunds.com/car-comparisons/?veh1=101335600&veh2=101266476|hatchback&- - - veh3=101363292&veh4=101364749|hatchback&show=0|1|2|3|4|5|6|7|8&comparatorId=2401- - - 190
It's interesting when comparing the Fiesta to the Focus that the Fiesta actually has more front seat headroom then the Focus.
#190 of 1316 Re: mpg diesel vs gas [bobw3]
Mar 24, 2011 (7:24 am)
The flaw in your argument is that it assumes diesel will remain static at a 14% premium over regular unleaded. Around here (New England) diesel prices fluctuate annually from a few cents lower than regular unleaded to a few cents more than premium unleaded.
#191 of 1316 Re: mpg diesel vs gas [shipo]
Mar 24, 2011 (1:56 pm)
Is there any real advantage to using E-85. The Edmunds stat sheet mentions flex -fuel capability for new focus ?( i was surprised to see that for the first time. Is it a misprint ?). Around here I saw $2.99 vs. $3.75 for unleaded regular. I have heard some of the stories about this product. Some say that it is horrible will ruin your engine, others say that the only detriment is that it simply will not deliver all the energy (and MPG) of the petroleum based product. Does EPA use the Flex fuel for their mpg statistics on vehicles that are designated as flex fuel ? (confused now)
#192 of 1316 Re: mpg diesel vs gas [markus5]
Mar 24, 2011 (7:45 pm)
As far as I know the "EPA tests" are actually performed by the manufacturers (with the EPA spot checking to make sure there is no cheating), and the manufacturers use either 100% gasoline or E10 (10% Ethanol). If you run E85 in an engine designed to run on that fuel, then no harm will come to the engine, however, your fuel economy will drop significantly as E85 contains far fewer calories of potential energy for any given volume when compared to gasoline.
#193 of 1316 Re: mpg diesel vs gas [shipo]
Mar 25, 2011 (4:08 am)
Around where I live (Ohio) 87 octane is around $3.59 while diesel is over $4.00. Your correct in that depending on the price difference, this may or may not be a factor, but I've always noticed diesel coming in at 20-50cents higher than 87 octane.
What about anyone else?
#194 of 1316 Re: mpg diesel vs gas [bobw3]
Mar 25, 2011 (4:57 am)
Splitting hairs here; you cannot buy "87 Octane" anywhere in Ohio. That said, what you can buy is a fuel with an AKI (Anti Knock Index) of 87. To the best of my knowledge the only places in the Continental 48 where one can buy gasoline with an octane rating of roughly 87 (which has an AKI rating of about 83) is up in the higher elevations of the Rocky Mountains.
As for diesel prices versus gasoline, I read something a year or two back that looked at national averages and calculated diesel to slot in between Regular Unleaded and Premium Unleaded on a per gallon cost basis. Granted periodic and regional swings to one extreme or the other can dramatically alter the cost per mile, but even when diesel is more expensive that Premium Unleaded, it is still the least expensive fuel on a per mile basis that we can buy.
#195 of 1316 Re: mpg diesel vs gas [shipo]
Mar 25, 2011 (6:55 am)
I did a couple of checks on this website, where you can enter any location:
For Boston, the lowest regular gas was in the $3.30s and $3.80s for diesel
For Bangor, Maine, it was $4.14 for diesel and $3.50 for regular.
New York $3.59/$3.99
So I'd stick to my previous post's calculations, in that if you're getting 50mpg in a diesel, that's equal to about 44mpg in a gas car because of the extra cost of buying diesel.
#196 of 1316 Re: mpg diesel vs gas [bobw3]
Mar 25, 2011 (7:12 am)
You cannot stick to your previous calculations because this it the time of the year (at the tail end of the home heating oil season) when diesel is always at its highest point relative to gasoline.