Last post on Jan 22, 2012 at 11:35 PM
You are in the Subaru Forester
What is this discussion about?
Subaru Forester, Honda Pilot, Car Comparisons, SUV
#3 of 12 Re: Subaru AWD vs. Honda VTM-4 [imaginary]
Dec 02, 2010 (12:12 pm)
Actually all AWD systems are 4WD (despite what Honda's marketing department says). Yes, there are different types of 4WD/AWD, but for all intents and purposes Honda's RealTime 4WD is just another AWD system.
The big difference is that all Subaru AWDs are full-time units, whereas the Honda's is an on-demand unit. The Honda is actually FWD until slippage occurs. Also, in the case of the Pilot (and Ridgeline, not sure about the CRV?), all 4 wheels do engage any time power is applied. So pulling away front a stop light, or when accelerating, the vehicle is in AWD mode. Once in cruising or coasting mode, it reverts to FWD; not so with Subarus.
#4 of 12 Re: Subaru AWD vs. Honda VTM-4 [rsholland]
Dec 02, 2010 (12:12 pm)
CR-V's RT4WD is FWD until slippage, then the rear axle is engaged.
Bob - VTM-4 disengages the rear axle completely above 29mph (IIRC, not sure about the exact speed), then it is 100% FWD.
#5 of 12 Re: Subaru AWD vs. Honda VTM-4 [ateixeira]
Dec 02, 2010 (12:18 pm)
Yeah, that too.
One other thing: Not all AWDs/4WDs are equal. If you recall looking at those roller videos, Subaru does a better job of transferring power to all the wheels, as some of those so-called AWD vehicles couldn't make it up the roller incline.
#6 of 12 Re: Subaru AWD vs. Honda VTM-4 [rsholland]
Dec 02, 2010 (6:34 pm)
But the CR-V's AWD system is different from the Pilot's AWD system. And yes, I've seen the roller videos. How unfortunate; I had higher hopes for Toyota and Honda back then. But that's ancient history.
I'm not trying to belittle Subaru's fantastic AWD system but you know I would love VDC if not VTD as well on the model year '04 and up. And I'm not sure if cars101.com has it incorrectly but VTD was employed on the Subaru Forester starting in model year 2007 on the XT Sports, not 2004. If it was in the model year 2004, I wouldn't have started this thread and wouldn't have weighed other options besides the 2004 Subaru Forester XT which are in the same price range.
Traction control is a big plus but I know I'd rather not deal with a failed transmission compared to a head gasket failure, which I have now heard doesn't plague the turbo engines, only the non-turbos for 2000-2003 (and disappears gradually up in the model years for the non-turbos).
After hearing that the turbos aren't plagued by the head gasket failures and comparing them to the common transmission problems found in the '03-'04 Honda Pilot, it looks like the Subaru Forester XT is starting to look more like the obvious choice.
But I'm still curious. How would the Honda Pilot perform in terms of off-road and snow? Are websites wrong to say the '03-04 Honda Pilots have traction control?
#7 of 12 Re: Subaru AWD vs. Honda VTM-4 [ateixeira]
Dec 02, 2010 (6:44 pm)
I've replied to part of your post in my above post. As for VTM-4 in the ranking, how do you come to that conclusion? I know that VTD is a lot better than VDC and VC (starting from 2009 of course) but how did you gauge VTM-4 so low? Even if VTM-4 is reactive, it doesn't really make sense that a computer inside the car can predict when slippage is going to occur. So from that, other AWD systems are just as reactive. It's just going to depend on how quick they can reactive given the torque split, at least from my thinking I'm assuming that's how it goes.
Personally I'd rather have the '09 torque split in the '04 Subaru Forester. :< 60:40 to 50:50 seems so much more better for traction anytime, anywhere even if it is VDC and not VTD. Of course I wouldn't mind VTD either instead of VDC. Traction control, to say the least, would be very nice in the '04 Subaru Forester XT.
#8 of 12 Re: Subaru AWD vs. Honda VTM-4 [imaginary]
Dec 03, 2010 (6:04 am)
I'm sure it will handle snow fine. Light off-roading will also be fine. Neither the Pilot/CRV/Ridgeline, or any current North American-spec Subaru offers a low-range transfer case for more difficult off-roading. You can lock the Pilot/Ridgeline into 4WD in 1st and 2nd gear, as AJ mentioned; but it will disengage at or around 29 mph.
#9 of 12 Re: Subaru AWD vs. Honda VTM-4 [imaginary]
Dec 03, 2010 (7:41 am)
I stand corrected on the model year, they've had so many different systems that it's hard to keep track. That generation Forester went from 2003-2008 and I assumed it was consistent for that time period, but I guess not.
They say when you get old two things happen: you lose your memory, and the other thing I forget!
The reason I ranked VTM-4 lower is because it's not full-time, and the other systems are. I realize it's better than RT4WD, though.
Subaru was late to the party with traction control, but prior models (S from 2000+ and XS later) had a rear limited-slip, at least.
#10 of 12 Re: Subaru AWD vs. Chevy AWD
Dec 03, 2010 (11:32 pm)
I've driven Chevy Astro AWD's for many years. The AWD works great. Goes FAR better in deep snow that any 4 wheel pickup I've had. My question is , would the Subaru get better mpg if it had a AWD-on-demand rather than full time AWD? And limited slip differential is a must. Does the Subaru have it? I live in heavy snow mountains in Idaho.
#11 of 12 Re: Subaru AWD vs. Chevy AWD [apetolla]
Dec 06, 2010 (9:49 am)
Most new Subarus have open diffs and allow the VDC (traction and stability control) manage traction on each axle. A few models still have mechanical limited slips, though.
I don't think part-time AWD would increase mileage much because the half shafts turn with the wheels anyway (I doubt the hubs disengage).
#12 of 12 Re: Subaru AWD vs. Honda VTM-4 [imaginary]
Jan 22, 2012 (11:35 pm)
I own a 2005 Forester and a2010 Pilot. Under adverse weather conditions like snow and ice the forester gets around far better than the pilot. The AWD system of the forester works great. The Pilot is like driving a big sled that cannot handle slick or snowy hills. Where as the forester handles the same conditions with ease. When the going gets tuff, get a Subaru.