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Cars That Have Disappointed

57 messages,  Last post on Feb 09, 2011 at 9:34 AM

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What is this discussion about? Chevrolet, Ford, Chrysler, Coupe, Convertible, Truck, Sedan, Wagon

Messages Page 6 of 6

#49 of 57 Re: Marlin, Avanti [Mr_Shiftright] by uplanderguy

Feb 08, 2011 (7:11 pm)

Replying to: Mr_Shiftright (Feb 08, 2011 11:25 am)
I think comparing the Gatsby and Tiffany to the Avanti II is somewhat of a joke. There is no other car that was a regular part of a manufacturer's lineup that was discontinued, then picked up by an independent builder and with the exception of engine and some minor tweaks, were built with the same chassis and interior parts, largely, as the original, for two decades. After that, a revised chassis was used but the styling remained so very close to the original, right up until the 1991. Sales were high enough to enable the manufacturers to add a convertible and four-door sedan. I could only liken this to somebody continuing to build the Corvette or Mustang if Chevy or Ford discontinued it...not a 'boutique' car like a Clenet or whatever.

#50 of 57 Re: Marlin, Avanti [uplanderguy] by Mr_Shiftright HOST

Feb 08, 2011 (7:38 pm)

Replying to: uplanderguy (Feb 08, 2011 7:11 pm)
Sure, most of the AC Cobra builders did that, and in aluminum, too (some of them). In fact, some of the reproductions are so good you have to *really* look at them to spot the fakes.
 
I wouldn't diss the Gatsby of Tiffany or Clenet too much, as they will bring double the money of an Avanti II. So their owners do have some bragging rights, even though the cars sort of horrify me.
 
The Avanti II was the answer to a question that nobody asked, it seems.

#51 of 57 Re: Marlin, Avanti [Mr_Shiftright] by uplanderguy

Feb 08, 2011 (7:45 pm)

Replying to: Mr_Shiftright (Feb 08, 2011 7:38 pm)
You seem unable to address the fact that for twenty years, the builders subsequent to Studebaker made a profit on the car. This, to me, is utterly amazing...while keeping up with safety standards.

#52 of 57 Re: Marlin, Avanti [uplanderguy] by Mr_Shiftright HOST

Feb 08, 2011 (8:47 pm)

Replying to: uplanderguy (Feb 08, 2011 7:45 pm)
it's just a little asterisk in automotive history to me.
 
I think of the Avanti II as a hobby well done, not as a serious manufacturer, and basically an automotive dead end. Sort of like those many types of Ford Model A manufacturers. Some of those guys went a decade or more.
 
The Avanti should have been retired as a champion, not dragged along for another 20 years or whatever.
 

#53 of 57 Re: Marlin, Avanti [Mr_Shiftright] by hpmctorque

Feb 08, 2011 (10:37 pm)

Replying to: Mr_Shiftright (Feb 08, 2011 8:47 pm)
I noticed you correctly used a lower case "c" in champion, when referring to this Studebaker.

#54 of 57 Re: Marlin, Avanti [Mr_Shiftright] by uplanderguy

Feb 09, 2011 (4:14 am)

Replying to: Mr_Shiftright (Feb 08, 2011 8:47 pm)
I always thought it was utterly amazing that the Newman and Altman families were able to get financing in South Bend to continue to build the Avanti, shortly after the huge collapse of Studebaker in the United States, and that Studebaker allowed it to be built. I mean, Avanti II's were being built while Studebaker was still assembling in Canada. It was built in an original Studebaker building, with Studebaker former employees, and they subsequently hired on Gene Hardig, Stude's former VP of Engineering, after his tasks of shutting down South Bend Engineering for Studebaker and engineering the use of GM engines in the '65 and '66 Canadian-built Studebakers were complete.
 
Nate Altman, the "ringleader", was a Packard dealer who didn't sell Studebakers until '59. He has been oft-quoted that he loved the Avanti so much, he couldn't stand to see it go away. He approached Morris Markin, president of Checker, about building the Avanti and Markin said "how do you expect me to sell such an ugly car?" This p*ssed off Altman who said later in an interview, "Can you believe he said that? He builds the Checker Marathon!" Hence, he decided to build the Avanti himself.

#55 of 57 Re: Marlin, Avanti [uplanderguy] by Mr_Shiftright HOST

Feb 09, 2011 (8:16 am)

Replying to: uplanderguy (Feb 09, 2011 4:14 am)
it may have been amazing, but it wasn't so smart. And I hope no one starts building Checkers again either.
 
I mean, look at the Avanti II or a hypothetical replica Checker from a purely pragmatic point of view. These are very old-fashioned cars. Very few people want to spend new-car money on a replica throwback to the 1960s. They either want the latest and greatest, or they want the *real thing*.
 
The pragmatism really stands out when you consider that they could have bought a real Avanti for the price of the fake one!
 
I mean, now really. Is there a better recipe for failure?
 
Madness is not uncommon when men become intoxicated with the allure of automobiles.
 

#56 of 57 Re: Marlin, Avanti [Mr_Shiftright] by andre1969

Feb 09, 2011 (9:08 am)

Replying to: Mr_Shiftright (Feb 09, 2011 8:16 am)
I mean, look at the Avanti II or a hypothetical replica Checker from a purely pragmatic point of view. These are very old-fashioned cars. Very few people want to spend new-car money on a replica throwback to the 1960s. They either want the latest and greatest, or they want the *real thing*.
 
I remember around 1990, there was a company that took old 60's GM intermediate convertibles, refurbished them, upgraded them to disc brakes and dual master cylinders, put in a good sound system, and replaced the engine with a generic Chevy 350, which I think was the 200 hp TBI unit, and a 4-speed automatic (THM700R4 I think) They'd also put musclecar badges on them, so that Tempest convertible now sported GTO badges, the Chevelle became an SS, the Cutlass a 4-4-2, etc.
 
I think they sold them for around $25,000. Actually, for something that combines a lot of the advantages with a new car with the style and charm of an old car, it doesn't seem like a huge amount...although that $25K is probably more like $40K+ today. And I think they even had a 1 year/12,000 mile powertrain warranty.
 
However, the venture wasn't too successful, and I don't think it lasted long. Overwhelmingly, people either wanted their new cars to be truly NEW, or if they wanted an older car, they wanted the real thing.

#57 of 57 Re: Marlin, Avanti [andre1969] by Mr_Shiftright HOST

Feb 09, 2011 (9:34 am)

Replying to: andre1969 (Feb 09, 2011 9:08 am)
Perhaps it was an idea before its time. Nowadays, people are upgrading classic cars. These are ofen called "pro touring" cars, and they make a lot of sense.
 
The marketplace in America is fickle and it is very saturated. Brand loyalty hardly exists anymore.

Messages Page 6 of 6

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