Last post on May 18, 2013 at 3:28 PM
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Honda Civic, Car Buying, Hybrid Cars, Automotive News, Future Vehicle, Coupe, Sedan
#77 of 221 Re: Elanta 2011 vs Civic 2012 [faircomparo]
May 10, 2011 (10:51 am)
Wow. First, thanks for doing the homework for all of us, and second, thanks for posting your findings. Really impressive.
Being the owner of a 2009 Civic, I would like to know the following if it is improved on the 2012 model:
1) Noise (mainly road noise). You mentioned that it is somewhat quieter, but is it as quiet as, say, the Corolla? Cruze?
2) Ride quality. The 2009 handles beautifully, but has very stiff ride. When combining ride quality with the noise, going on 40 MPH makes you feel like driving at 65 MPH.!! Some roads have a posted speed limit of 65 and I actually have a hard time to drive that fast. It feels like I'm moving at 90 mph! While in some other vehicles (mainly Toyota) going on 80 mph feels like just 40 mph. It's that quiet and relaxed ride. And even the Accord is much better riding and quieter than the Civic.
3. The 2009 stereo sucks. Worst quality I've ever heard in a late-model car. the $40 2.1 Speakers on my PC has 10x better sound quality. Is the 2012 improved?
There are a few more flaws in the 2009 which I wrote about a while ago, some of them are finally improved (like adding remote trunk release on the LX model), they also now have stability control across the board, but some questions I still need answers, and I hope in the near future to take a test drive myself to test all my concerns, and decide if it's worth for me to stay with a Civic.
- The turning circle in the 2009 is very wide, the Accord and Odyssey are much narrower and thus more flexible.
- I hate that only the rear lamp comes on when you open any door. I think that the FRONT LAMPS should come on when opening a front door.
- The door lock / window controls seems redesigned in the 2012. I wonder if the window controls are now finally illuminated at night. And if they have a lighted glove box? and a lighted ignition key ring like on so many Honda's? How about auto ON/OFF headlamps?
- I would need a sun visor with a sliding extension.
- I really hate the inside door pull handles. The Elantra's is so nice and comfortable. You can rest your hands and have a good grip while taking a sharp turn... if you know what I mean. But even the Accord is better.
- When un-buckling yourself while on a speed above 7 mph (I think) the reminder will beep, but will not stop even if you came already to a full stop. The reminder should not behave that way. (Toyota is not better in this regard).
On the positive side, I think that the engine is an excellent one, sounds very refined, and have a sweet note compared to competitors. I also like the flat rear floor (also found in the Corolla), and it's beyond me why larger sized cars can't do the same (Accord, and most Ford, GM, Chrysler sedans). And the nimble, responsive feel is top-notch.
#78 of 221 Re: Elanta 2011 vs Civic 2012 [faircomparo]
May 10, 2011 (1:38 pm)
If it were your intent to do a "fair comparo", per your handle, you would have compared the Civic EX to the Elantra Limited instead of the GLS. They are much closer in price and features (e.g. both have standard moonroofs and alloys), with the Civic EX being about $300 more than the Elantra Limited. You might have found the Elantra Limited to be a better handler than the GLS, with the 17" wheels/tires, and might have liked the leather interior of the Elantra and other features of the Limited.
If you must compare the Civic EX to the Elantra GLS, note that the price difference is not $2000... it's more like $3000, depending on the options you choose on the Elantra. Another reason to compare trims of the two cars that are more similar in price and features.
I recently drove an Elantra GLS for a couple of days and I have to say my experience does not match yours in a number of respects. Now, I did not drive my rental Elantra at 3x the limit. I think that kind of driving is not only dangerous, but also I doubt the folks at Avis would appreciate my abusing their nearly-new rental like that (I expect most dealers wouldn't be too happy with someone driving a demo car like that either). In normal city and highway driving, I found the GLS to be very quiet (including wind, engine, and road noise), with a very smooth ride and transmission and very comfortable driving position. I found no cases where a bump pounded me "in the kidneys". The main issue I had with the car was the steering felt a little "loose", although it did track straight. I wouldn't be surprised if the Civic's steering is firmer, based on my experiences with past Civics and other Hondas. I got over 33 mpg on my rental, which included city and highway driving and some very heavy traffic with long waits. I thought that was quite good given the conditions, which were real-world for that city (Austin).
If the rear seat of the Civic is more roomy than the Elantra's, that would be really great, as I found the Elantra has more rear seat leg room than some mid-sized cars. That would mean a huge increase in rear seat room for the Civic compared to 2011. I can't wait to check that out, as that is an important criterion for me.
If the Civic is indeed as great as you say it is, with a roomier back seat than the Elantra's, quieter interior than the Elantra, better FE than the Elantra, and handling that allows it to easily navigate curves at 3x the posted limits, I'll definitely have to check out the Civic LX. $3000 is a big difference to me when buying an economy car, so I would have to go with the Civic LX vs. EX.
p.s. FYI, the 200 is not a compact, but a mid-sized car. The Fiesta is a sub-compact. Again, it's good to compare like-to-like in these comparos.
#79 of 221 Elantra GLS is a lower trim level than Civic EX
May 11, 2011 (4:12 am)
I find it hard to believe that both dealers let you drive off with both cars without having a sales person present in the car--I have test driven cars for over 30 years and I have never been allowed to test drive a new car without a sales person present. I have driven the Elantra limited and I did not find the ride to be as harsh as you claim--nor did I find it to be particularly noisy for this class of vehicle. Furthermore, you should have compared the Elantra Limited to EX rather than the lower trim GLS. That being said, I would not find it hard to believe that the Civic may be a better driver's car --however, for most buyers in this class (who would not push the car at 3x the speed limit) I think features and value would place the Elantra ahead of the Civic (ie. the Elantra Limited offers a backup camera, a 6 speed automatic with manual shift, heated seats, turn signals in the mirrors, proximity keys, start stop button--all of these features are not even available on the Civic). I have owned many Hondas over the years and from my experience the metal is very thin as my cars are very easily dented by careless other drivers--so unless Honda has changed the thickness of the metal in the new Civic I would think this would would dent just as easily.
#80 of 221 Re: Features is where it lacks [backy]
May 11, 2011 (8:58 am)
I would love to know how ALG can begin to believe that an Elantra would have better resale value than a Civic?
They should attend an auction sometime!
#81 of 221 Re: Features is where it lacks [yysyys]
May 11, 2011 (9:35 am)
Actually, the best "safety option" is to not use your cell phone while driving!
If you just have to talk and drive at the same time,, an inexpensive earpiece will work just fine.
A lot of us find no need for a factory bluetooth but if you must have one there are a lot of aftermarket units out there.
#82 of 221 Re: Elantra GLS is a lower trim level than Civic EX [bb49]
May 11, 2011 (9:07 am)
This is EXACTLY why no smart store would ever allow a solo test drive!
Abusing a car for 3 hours and driving it over 100 miles is nuts and that is what you get when a salesperson isn't along to control things.
And, people that do this rarely buy anything!
#83 of 221 Re: Elantra GLS is a lower trim level than Civic EX [isellhondas]
by kirstie_h HOST
May 11, 2011 (9:16 am)
Around here, you are offered one of two options:
- extended test drive with a salesperson in the car, or
- test drive by yourself on a pre-mapped route, and you sign a form saying you will take it only on that route.
#84 of 221 Re: Elanta 2011 vs Civic 2012 [faircomparo]
May 11, 2011 (9:23 am)
This tells me why a sales rep always goes with me on a test drive. You obviously did not think about the person who is going to buy this "new" car that you tested. After reading this, I don't think I will buy another new car with miles on it. Can you imagine someone buying a new car that had been treated like this right off the lot? I think you were thinking about yourselves and not the person who is going to buy that car and pay 3 to 5 years for it.
#85 of 221 Re: Elanta 2011 vs Civic 2012 [temj12]
May 11, 2011 (9:34 am)
Well, driving it in that manner probably didn't "hurt" anything but still, it shows no respect for the dealer or the person who will be buying it.
On test drives, I wouldn't allow that kind of abuse and if the driver insisted on doing things like that I would have them pull the car over and their driving was done.
Probably happened three or four times in 14 years to me. I think most people knew better.
#86 of 221 Re: Features is where it lacks [isellhondas]
May 11, 2011 (10:24 am)
Yes, ALG obviously knows nothing about residual values on cars. It's only their business.