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Federal Aid For Electric Cars - Good or Bad Idea?

24 messages,  Last post on Mar 12, 2013 at 7:41 AM

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What is this discussion about? Electric Cars

Messages Page 2 of 3

#4 of 24 Re: why not? [boaz47] by steve_ HOST

Jul 15, 2010 (8:07 pm)

Replying to: boaz47 (Jul 15, 2010 7:45 pm)
And for power bring on more Nuclear plants.
 
I think BP may be interested in going that way after their small problem with one of their wells. Can't wait to see them try to shut down a nuke problem in 90 days.
 
Obama checks out a Volt:
 
President Obama Stands Next to, Sits in, Talks About Chevy Volt (Straightline)

#5 of 24 steve... by iluvmysephia1

Jul 17, 2010 (10:47 pm)

I think BP may be interested in going that way after their small problem with one of their wells. Can't wait to see them try to shut down a nuke problem in 90 days.
 
Bite your lip, you...Boise-an? Boisean?

#6 of 24 Re: Federal Aid For Electric Cars - Good or Bad Idea? [kernick] by Mr_Shiftright HOST

Aug 01, 2010 (11:56 am)

Replying to: kernick (Jun 24, 2010 9:43 am)
Let's get real here...even if the inner metro areas are buzzing with cute little electric cars in the next 10 years...when people go to plug them in, chances are pretty darn good that the electricity will come from a coal-fired or nuclear plant.
 
Essentially nothing has changed, only "shifted".
 
This is not a renewable energy source, but rather a conversion from one type of energy into another, both of which are used up and not replenished.
 
For instance, if you go to "green" cities like say self-touting Boulder, Colorado---yes, there are bike paths and innovative recycling and green space and solar panels on roofs---but 5 miles out of town there's a big coal-fired plant that keeps Boulder lit up, as well as the tons of SUVs that blanket the 95% of the city that isn't a bike path or pedestrian mall.
 
What we have there is "look good" and "feel good" but it's not a "sustainable future".

#7 of 24 shifty... by iluvmysephia1

Aug 01, 2010 (5:45 pm)

but if enough of us run all-electric cars won't we cut a lot of emissions down and take away a whole bunch of that kind of environmental mess, in your view?
 
I know that coal-fired electrical plants still emit a whole bunch of belch, and we should go nuclear to produce electricity, solar doesn't seem to provide enough punch and wind won't make it without the eco-freaks busting in and stopping that energy production method before it even gets started.
 
But it seems to me that for me to do my local errands driving a Mitsubishi i-MiEV instead of my ICE Lancer GTS overall it should help the environmental picture out. No need for gasoline and way fewer parts inside to move the car. And no emissions coming out the tailpipe. I know it's a trade-off but doesn't it favor the all-electrical idea more than the ICE idea at the end of another hard-fought day?

#8 of 24 Re: Federal Aid For Electric Cars - Good or Bad Idea? [Mr_Shiftright] by euphonium

Aug 02, 2010 (9:29 am)

Replying to: Mr_Shiftright (Aug 01, 2010 11:56 am)
When I visited friends in Boulder, I discovered it was a few square miles surrounded by reality.

#9 of 24 Re: shifty... [iluvmysephia1] by kernick

Aug 03, 2010 (7:33 am)

Replying to: iluvmysephia1 (Aug 01, 2010 5:45 pm)
I know it's a trade-off but doesn't it favor the all-electrical idea more than the ICE idea at the end of another hard-fought day?
 
Everyone likes to think they have some control over the way the world is going. Is that realistic? Heck no, even President Obama really can't control much. It seems that the 6.5B people in the world each have their own agenda - which for the most part is to improve their own individual situation/wealth/power. So whether you or a few million "yous" conserve and are good citizens, there are many, many more people who will be glad to fill any vacuum you leave in using resources.
 
There is a certain amount of resources/energy in this world, and we continue to use them up. Whether you slow that usage up 1%, 5% or 20%, the resources still get used up. The only thing that changes slightly is that date. In the millenium that have gone and will come on Earth, the age of fossil-fuel usage will last a few hundred years - a mere blip in time. Your and my effort will be lost in time, just as the billions and billions of people who came before lived and died for causes or work that are now ruins or lost forever.
 
Enjoy your life, and forget about the desire to be Superman and save the world.

#10 of 24 Re: shifty... [kernick] by larsb

Aug 03, 2010 (8:02 am)

Replying to: kernick (Aug 03, 2010 7:33 am)
Whether or not "we have control" should not interfere with doing what WE BELIEVE is the right thing.
 
Millions of people do things every day which are unselfish and with the intent of helping someone besides themselves.
 
People LIKE that feeling. I know I do.

#11 of 24 Re: shifty... [iluvmysephia1] by Mr_Shiftright HOST

Aug 03, 2010 (10:27 am)

Replying to: iluvmysephia1 (Aug 01, 2010 5:45 pm)
Perhaps but really, one should be calculating their nifty new electric car's MPG as CPM (coal per mile). Not only that, you may be quite disappointed in the range of your Mitsubishi is you choose a) highway travel and b) air-conditioning.
 
Modern cars are pretty darn clean right now, so IMO any advantage to electrics would be in noise reduction, not emissions reduction. Someday soon, if it hasn't already happened, the exhaust out the tail pipe of a modern car in *certain cities* will be cleaner than the air going into the air filter.
 
Electric cars merely change the energy delivery system, not necessarily do they decrease energy use.
 
They are advertised as getting the "equivalent of 75-100 mpg" or some such, but this is the DOLLAR equivalent to gasoline---it's not saying you get the same performance equivalent.
 
I'm not even sure America's energy infrastructure could support a vast number of electric cars---we already have "brown-outs" in summer months in any number of cities.
 
Here's an interesting article on this subject:
 
ELECTRIC CAR ECONOMY RATINGS
 

#12 of 24 Re: shifty... [Mr_Shiftright] by larsb

Aug 03, 2010 (10:28 am)

Replying to: Mr_Shiftright (Aug 03, 2010 10:27 am)
Shifty says, "I'm not even sure America's energy infrastructure could support a vast number of electric cars---we already have "brown-outs" in summer months in any number of cities. "
 
Most of the "serious charging" will take place at night, when the load on The Grid is minimal.
 
Also, with GM only selling only about 10,000 Volts the first year, hoping to sell more in coming years, The Grid has time to prepare:
 
Given the Volt’s very low initial production levels (8,000-10,000 for the first year), it is assured that it will be a virtual sell-out heading into 2012. But what happens when full line utilization is reached?
 
GM hopes to be producing 50,000-60,000 copies a year starting sometime in 2012. Looking even further out to 2015, Bob Lutz (GM’s vice chairman) predicted that the total market for the plug-in vehicles “will reach 250,000-300,000 units annually,” and added “they will mostly be our products.” /that is a lot of Volts Bob.

 
Other posters have wringed hands about stressing The Grid but I don't think that's anything we need to worry about for a few more years. It would take electric cars becoming more popular than Justin Beiber for them to stress the infrastructure anytime soon.

#13 of 24 Re: shifty... [larsb] by steve_ HOST

Aug 03, 2010 (3:06 pm)

Replying to: larsb (Aug 03, 2010 10:28 am)
The grid dies tonight. Better stock up on milk, bread and batteries. (National Geographic)
 
(Actually this one is going to be a minor one)

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