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Cars That Could Have Been Great, But Missed

421 messages,  Last post on Jan 31, 2013 at 2:32 PM

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What is this discussion about? Chrysler, Wagon

Messages Page 37 of 42

#361 of 421 Re: Chryslers "Cloud" Cars [fintail] by hpmctorque

Apr 25, 2011 (2:19 pm)

Replying to: fintail (Apr 25, 2011 10:03 am)
I saw a Breeze on the road just a few days ago. It looked like it hadn't been washed in months.
 
I remember a Chrysler marketing guy's comment around the time the Breeze was introduced, saying "we want to have fun with Plymouth." Don't know what he meant, but I remember thinking it's something one might say when he's desparate about the future of a brand. Come to think of it, the stickers correlate with that remark.

#362 of 421 Re: Chryslers "Cloud" Cars [hpmctorque] by andre1969

Apr 25, 2011 (4:21 pm)

Replying to: hpmctorque (Apr 25, 2011 2:19 pm)
I think the Breeze was meant to be primarily for rental fleets and the ultra, ultra cheap. There was no V-6 option, only the Neon's 2.0 4-cyl, or the 2.4 from the other "cloud cars". BTW, the 2.0 wasn't offered in the Dodge or the Chrysler, so that shows just how bargain-basement they were taking the Breeze.
 
The 2.0/4-speed automatic (hey, at least they didn't try to go ultra-cheap and throw the 3-speed automatic in there!) was rated 22/31, while the 2.4/4-speed auto was rated 21/30. They also had a 2.0/5-speed manual that was rated 26/37, which is pretty impressive for a midsize car! I imagine few were equipped that cheaply, though.
 
Oh, and on fuel economy, that reminds me of another reason why I picked an Intrepid, over that Stratus I checked out. The Stratus with the 2.5 V-6 was rated 19/27, and only had something like 168 hp, while the Intrepid's 2.7 was rated at 20/29, and put out a class-leading 200 hp. The only way to get 200 hp from the Taurus was to get the optional Duratec 3.0, as the Vulcan only had something like 153 hp. And the Impala had a 3.4 with 180 hp standard, and you had to order the 3.8 to get to 200.
 
Cars like the Bonneville and LeSabre had a standard 3.8 with 205 hp, but they were also a lot more expensive.
 
Sometimes I wonder how things would have turned out if I had bought that 2000 Stratus ES back on November 6, 1999, rather than the Intrepid? I wonder if it would have been as reliable, and if I would have liked it as much, in the long run. I also drove a Dodge Ram that day, but the only Ram I could afford at the time was the 3.9 V-6 model, and, to be blunt, I thought it kinda sucked.

#363 of 421 Re: Chryslers "Cloud" Cars [andre1969] by hpmctorque

Apr 25, 2011 (6:32 pm)

Replying to: andre1969 (Apr 25, 2011 4:21 pm)
Of the cars in the Intrepid' 2.7's price range, I think you made the best choice. From what I've heard, the 2.7's sludge problems were avoidable with proper maintenance. Your experience supported that this engine delivered good service when properly maintained.

#364 of 421 Re: Chryslers "Cloud" Cars [andre1969] by lemko

Apr 26, 2011 (6:09 am)

Replying to: andre1969 (Apr 25, 2011 4:21 pm)
If the 'Trep hadn't been wrecked, do you think you'd still have it?

#365 of 421 Re: Chryslers "Cloud" Cars [lemko] by andre1969

Apr 26, 2011 (6:18 am)

Replying to: lemko (Apr 26, 2011 6:09 am)
If the 'Trep hadn't been wrecked, do you think you'd still have it?
 
Yeah, probably, although it would have around 164,000 miles on it by now (had 150K when wrecked, and I've put 14K on the Park Ave).
 
The Trep actually saved me a bit on maintenance though, getting wrecked when it did. It was about due for a transmission service, which I tried to do roughly every 30,000 miles. Rear brake pads tended to last around 50,000 miles, so it was probably going to need them again soon. And, as preventive maintenance, I might have changed the battery by now.
 
Now, if the engine or transmission had gone out in that car, I would have junked it, but both were still working fine, so I'm sure they still had a few good years left.

#366 of 421 1970 Riv/Toro by tomcatt630

May 01, 2011 (8:25 pm)

Even as a kid I didn't know why they changed the looks on Riv/Toro for 1970 just for a year. Sales of the 70's tanked, and probably from the looks. OTOH, I have a car buddy who had a green 70 Riv and likes them for "uniqueness".
 
Another odd look from GM for 1970 were the full sized Pontiacs, they looked alot less sporty than the 65-69 and the big grille was like an antique radiator.

#367 of 421 Re: 1970 Riv/Toro [tomcatt630] by andre1969

May 02, 2011 (5:19 am)

Replying to: tomcatt630 (May 01, 2011 8:25 pm)
I never did like the '70 Riviera, but can still tolerate the Toronado. At least with the Toro, it seems like they only botched the front, but with the Riv, they messed up the whole thing. Almost overnight, it seemed to go from sleek, sporty, tasteful, to an odd combination of old man's car and pimp-mobile. I think the one redeeming feature was that 1970 was the year the Riv hit its peak horsepower, before the decline.
 
I think Pontiac was trying to apply Grand Prix styling to the big cars for 1970, and that retro style, or "neoclassic" as they called it back then, was starting to come into vogue. It worked on the '69-70 Grand Prix, but I think the result was a bit less tasteful on the big cars. They were just too wide to wear a grille that narrow and tall, and it left too much room on either side. And trying to fill it in by spacing the headlights out a bit, and making the fake horn ports, which gave it a "6-headlight" look, just didn't work.

#368 of 421 Re: 1970 Riv/Toro [andre1969] by lemko

May 02, 2011 (7:45 am)

Replying to: andre1969 (May 02, 2011 5:19 am)
I guess that explains the 1970 full-size Pontiac's weird look. They tried to make it a massive Grand Prix. I always thought the 1970 Riviera looked like a Skylark on steroids. The fender skirts were bad enough, but that vinyl sweepspear was really overkill.

#369 of 421 Re: 1970 Riv/Toro [andre1969] by ab348

May 02, 2011 (8:36 am)

Replying to: andre1969 (May 02, 2011 5:19 am)
Actually, given a choice between the '69 and '70 big Pontiacs, I'd take the '70. I liked the attempt at pseudo-classic styling, and the '69 by comparison seems bland. I think the '70 looks better to my eye now than it did when it was new.
 
There is nothing at all good I can say about the Riv for that year though. Dunno what they were thinking. At least on the '70 Toro you could order the GT option which gave it the most power it would ever have along with a dual-cutout rear bumper like the 4-4-2.

#370 of 421 Re: 1970 Riv/Toro [ab348] by oldbearcat

May 02, 2011 (8:49 pm)

Replying to: ab348 (May 02, 2011 8:36 am)
My Dad owned a 70 Toro GT. It was quite a beast. If you uncorked it at a stoplight, the front tires would go up in smoke. Turns out - this was his last Olds. One evening in 1977, he took the Toro downtown, and, came home with a new BMW 530i. The BMW dealer must have thought that he was nuts. He left the house dressed in a old sweatshirt, and, a pair of WWII vintage fatique pants. He'd just finished mowing thw grass, and, I guess he just decided to go swap cars. I didn't even know he had been looking at BMWs.
 
Regards;
Oldbearcat

Messages Page 37 of 42

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