Last post on Jun 13, 2012 at 8:24 PM
You are in the Prices Paid - Buying & Leasing Experiences
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Infiniti M37, Car Buying, Car Leasing, Sedan
#139 of 239 Re: M37 offer [lawyergirl22]
Aug 19, 2010 (3:55 pm)
lawyergirl22 - some M issues to be aware of before buying/leasing:
REGRESSIONS FROM 2008-2009 M35/45
- XM NavTraffic no longer verbally warns you about traffic congestion on a route; no longer indicates where green "traffic flowing" conditions exist along a route (and therefore can't show you traffic conditions along an entire route); and sometimes doesn't show you adverse traffic conditions under "Info on Route" that inexplicably do appear under "Nearby Traffic Info."
- The nav system can no longer locate street addresses on Grand Avenue in downtown Los Angeles such as Disney Hall (111 S. Grand Ave). Instead, the system sends you to San Pedro, CA! So one has to wonder what other main roads in major cities are missing...
- When visually scrolling through songs, you must press the steering wheel's menu select button down to scroll down through the list. But once you've selected your song and it's playing, you now have to illogically press up on the switch to select the next track down on the playlist. (At a minimum, the driver should be able to choose how the switch functions since there's apparently quite a bit of disagreement among customers.) This functionality is the exact opposite from all Infinitis produced before 2010.
- The phone system can no longer redial the most recent number called on a paired Bluetooth cell phone simply by pressing the Talk switch and saying "Redial."
- The 2011 M omits the 2008/09 M's convenient secondary sun visor that allows you to move the main sun visor to the side window while still having one for the windshield.
- The sun visor does not fold forward enough, causing it to frequently block the driver's view of signs, streetlights, and/or vehicles more than a couple car lengths ahead of you.
- No longer an option to have rear passenger seats that recline and are heated (or ventilated, for that matter).
SYSTEM SETTINGS & CUSTOMIZATION
- One can't set the power-folding mirrors to automatically fold in when the engine is turned off, and then always open out when the engine is turned on.
- The power-folding mirrors' armrest switch is backwards (pressing it outwards folds the mirrors inwards, and vice versa); and the switch doesn't even work at all if the engine has been turned off (even though the power windows still work).
- The doors automatically lock above 15 mph without giving the driver any ability to disable the feature or customize its functionality.
- No way to turn off Active Noise Control (if for no other reason than to see how well it works).
- No ability to see more than just five selections when searching for Nearby Places via Voice Recognition while driving.
- When on a route and searching for Places, there's no way to search for outlying Places that aren't along the route, near the destination, or near the current location.
- Certain settings and customizations (such as turning on Welcome Lighting) require an unusual series of strange steps instead of just being a simple preference via the Settings button.
- Settings for warning and intervention systems (FCW, LDW, BSW, DCA, LDP, BSI, IBA) cannot be sufficiently customized independently, and under certain circumstances can be too intrusive. Also, Infiniti should give drivers the ability to have the selected intervention systems automatically turn on with the engine, just as one can permanently enable/disable the warning systems by holding the appropriate button for 4 seconds.
- Transmission throttle mapping seems confused at times, especially at slower speeds.
FUNCTIONALITY IN NEED OF REFINEMENT
- There is no way to switch back to the current list of songs playing on a connected iPod, unlike with the CD or Music Box interfaces which can return you to the track list in progress.
- Saying "Traffic Information" using Voice Recognition should take you to the main traffic information screen (like "Fuel Economy" takes you to the fuel economy screen), but instead it turns the traffic reporting functionality on/off.
- When listing traffic conditions for "Nearby Traffic Info," XM NavTraffic doesn't specify the specific highway (e.g., I-405 South) in the list, so you're required to select the condition detail to see on which direction the congestion, accident, or closure is located.
- The computer frequently freezes after trying to store a Voice Tag for an address book entry.
- Voice Recognition library of commands is not as sophisticated nor extensive as in some other brands, such as Acura.
UNRESOLVED PRIOR-YEAR M PROBLEMS
- The ventilated front seats still cannot cool the upper half of the seat between one's shoulders.
- Still no daytime running lights (like in Canada) nor mirror-mounted turn signals (like the QX).
- When headlights are manually turned on during the daytime, there is still no way to override the automatic dimming of button indicator lights.
- The cigarette lighter for charging cell phones does not stay powered on when the engine is off.
- When taking a Bluetooth phone call, the CD/iPod/Music Box is still not automatically paused.
- Rear passenger seats still can't be folded forward for extra trunk space.
- The Intelligent Key still cannot turn on the engine and A/C remotely. And while it is able to remotely roll down your windows by holding the unlock button, it can't roll them back up.
- The car's suspension is not adjustable, so the driver can't dial in a cushier ride when desired.
- The car doors still only have two main secure positionsówide open and half open, which allows them to unexpectedly slam into people's knees or heads on inclines or in tight spaces.
MISSING FEATURES AND FUNCTIONALITY
- No Around-View Monitor like on the FX, EX, and QX, nor any form of visual/audible distance warning for the front end and four bumper corners. (But the 2011 BMW 5-series has it!)
- No ability to enter phone extension numbers and passcodes with Voice Recognition, instead of taking your eyes off the road to manually key in the numbers on the display screen with the Keypad.
- No capability on some cell phones to switch between callers using Voice Recognition when a Call Waiting beep is received, instead of having to pick up your cell phone and physically press the button.
- No ability on some cell phones to see the Caller ID on your display of a second caller on Call Waiting.
- No "Heads-Up Display" virtually projected onto the windshield, like both the 2011 BMW 550i and 2010 Mercedes-Benz E550 offer.
- No Valet Mode that disables the stereo/radio, limits the top speed to 45 mph, displays on the nav screen the total mileage driven while in this mode, prevents use of the navigation system, prevents access to the Music Box and all settings made through the touch-screen, disables all unnecessary controls, disables the Bluetooth connection, turns off the A/C after 5 minutes at idle, and automatically runs the hazard lights when being driv
#140 of 239 Re: M37 offer [blastphemy]
Aug 19, 2010 (4:39 pm)
blastphemy-- thank you so much for the comprehensive reply! Alot to think about before i make the purchase. What other vehicles do you suggest as a comparison? I have driven the E320, ES and GS, and older M's, what am I missing (bearing in mind that for some reason BMW just doesn't appeal to me) and that my limit is no more that $55k?
Thanks again for all the infomation.
#141 of 239 Re: M37 offer [lawyergirl22]
Aug 19, 2010 (6:03 pm)
while the list is very complete, it focuses on the missings without including the includeds. I drove every car prior to leasing my 2011 M and the M was by far and away the best lease price/performer. I could find no lexus that made sense..ES is a fancy Camry and the GS. although nicer, has poor resale and terrible leasing because of it. The mercedes just didn't have the pep I wanted in the 320 and was a fair amount more $'s (plus very high service costs and I am wary of reliability). I Loved the Jaguar but again resale and leasing are just awful. Don't like the looks of the Acuras and I'm partial to rear wheel drive cars; the Cadillac was another possibility but the seat was so short it was uncomfortable and no backup camera which I consider a must safety feature (2011's might have it). Local BMW dealer woudn't even discuss discounts on the 5 series so I lost interest quickly. In the end, it was a choice between the CTX and the M37.
I wound up leasing an M37 at invoice (less the $1000 loyalty bonus).
#142 of 239 Re: M37 offer [ghstudio]
Aug 19, 2010 (8:53 pm)
ghstudio - I agree completely, but I just didn't have the room to list the positives which are far more numerous than the negatives. But a lot of the items on my "negative" list aren't always readily apparent to someone on a 10-minute test drive, and some of those may actually be deal-breakers for certain customers.
I currently drive an M56, so I've had time to uncover all these shortcomings. But the key thing is that they weren't enough to make me go down the street to another dealership
Plus, if Infiniti is actually paying attention to its customer's suggestions for improvements to this brand new vehicle - many of which that could be applied through software updates - then the car will continue to improve and may eventually only have the hardware items that need to be resolved in the 2012 model year.
#143 of 239 Re: M37 offer [blastphemy]
Aug 20, 2010 (6:01 am)
I personally liked a lot about the NAV on my '07 M35, particularly "destination phone number" or "dial Joe Smith"...My 2011 M37 required more steps to do the same...very cumbersome...
#144 of 239 Re: M37 offer [j21m]
Aug 20, 2010 (6:21 am)
but at least the 2011 navigation system doesn't give you that absurd legal disclaimer when you start. I hated that on my 06/08. Admittedly there are some extra steps, but then again if I'm looking for a local restaurant, I can now see 20 entries instead of just 5 when moving (Using the dial on the dash). I'm not sure what brilliant legal eagle decided that if you're driving along on an interstate and want to see more than 5 restaurants, you had to pull off the road and stop which is far more dangerous than paging down to see 5 more entries.
As far as traffic and weather...I live in Florida and for a few days every time I started the car, the navigation would tell me that there was a high heat warning within 20 miles.....I guess that's just in case I didn't know it was hot Useless info. After my free trial, that will be a feature I won't renew.
#145 of 239 M37 Offer [tarsar7]
Aug 22, 2010 (7:23 pm)
First off, let me say thank you!! to everyone on this forum. I have learned an enormous amount just reading the posts. Now on to the goods - here are the details of the offer I currently have:
2011 M37 Premium/Sport/Sport Touring + dealer adds (wheel locks, tint, paint protect pkg)
MSRP: 56125 + dealer adds (3145) = 59270
Invoice: 51369 (ignoring dealer adds)
Quoted Price: 52395 + fees below
Documentation Fee: 469.50
Paint Protection Pkg: 297
Lease: $4000 up front
15K miles, .00146 Money Factor, 55% residual, 39 months = 645 + tax
15K miles, .00137 Money Factor, 56% residual, 36 months = 668 + tax
1. The total price still seems high to me given what I have read here? Comments? Can I get this car at invoice right now?
2. Leasing in completely new to me. Assuming 0 down, should the cap cost be equal to the negotiated total cost of the vehicle + the acquisition fee? Any additional fees to expect besides Title/Reg?
Thanks in advance!!!
#146 of 239 Re: M37 Offer [tarsar7]
Aug 22, 2010 (9:42 pm)
Don't put any money down beyond what you need for the drive-off costs (1st payment, taxes, DMV fees, etc.). If you have extra cash and want to lower your monthly payment, put down multiple security deposits (see earlier posts elsewhere in this and other threads for the details). When you put money down on a lease beyond the drive-off costs, you're just throwing it away.
If it helps, here's a complete breakdown of my recent M56 lease. It includes the Premium, Technology, and Deluxe Touring packages (and no Sport pkg), rear spoiler, illuminated kick plates, splash guards, vehicle alarm impact sensor, first aid kit, and trunk netting:
MSRP was $66,300 (which includes the $865 destination charge).
Using VPP Plan D, the price fell to $60,762.
Additional reductions/costs included -$1,000 loyalty cash, +$695 for LoJack, +$815 for DMV, +$195.68 for tax on capitalized cost reduction, +$4.39 for sales tax paid in advance, +$45 for document preparation fee, and +$8.75 California tire fee, making the gross cap cost $62,053.
I put down $3,000 to cover the first monthly payment and all the "drive-off" fees above, resulting in a final adjusted cap cost of $60,046.
The residual value is $35,802, the rent charge was $6,072.84, and the lease term was 36 months 15,000 miles which resulted in a monthly payment of $924.25.
Money factor was 0.00176 (4.22%), Residual Value was 54%, but those were the rates for July, so your rates may differ.
#147 of 239 Re: M37 Offer [tarsar7]
Aug 23, 2010 (3:05 pm)
Depending on your negotiating skills, you should be able to buy an M37 at invoice.....I did in July and the market hasn't gotten stronger. I would suggest that you eliminate the paint protection package...which is pretty much pure profit to the dealer...or leave it in and pay invoice and let them have the extra few $$'s.
Pay nothing up front....first month, documentation fee (to state) and that's it. Use the difference in multiple security deposits. If you or your dealer don't understand MSD's, it's time to learn...they are a great deal for you....and they don't effect the dealer at all.
#148 of 239 Re: M37 Offer [tarsar7]
Aug 23, 2010 (7:49 pm)
Hi Tarsar7 -
Wow, what are the dealer ad-ons?
I just negotiated $300 below invoice on an almost identical M37:
Platinum Graphite / Graphite Int
Sport Touring (the surround stereo is just amazing, and the pollen filters are a must for my wife if I want to drive with fresh air coming in when she is with me)
NO Tech package - IMHO mostly just a bunch of "safety" nanny buzzers telling you how to drive, keeping you in your lane, etc. that are more irritating than useful. (the technology in place here is admittedly pretty cool, but I would almost certainly disable 90% of it). And, I can parallel park if necessary. Again, IMHO
$51,069 My Price (and Cap Cost)
Minimum drive off (first payment and DMV license fee)
Current IFS mf and residual for my lease situation
36 months / 12K miles per year
$705 / month
Do NOT buy any dealer add ons unless it's something you really want and you can't get it anywhere else (such as the trunk mats and nets, Aero pkg or spoiler). If you really want the scotch guard, paint protection, extended warranty, etc, you can get these on your own far cheaper. I wouldn't suggest any of these, particularly because you are leasing. Also, any dealer add ons (even the spoiler and stuff) will not be factored into the residual, so you won't get your money back for this investment at the end of the lease. Having said that, I am probably going to add the spoiler as I love the look and couldn't find one equipped that way.
As they are diverting my car (that is just now being manufactured) from another dealer 500 miles away once it is shipped - going straight from the ship to my dealer, and I won't take delivery until the last week in September, the Infiniti lease terms may change for Sept. - but there is a good chance they won't. My dealer says if the rates go up he will make up the difference on his end so my payments won't change, but if they go down he will pass it on to me. This a great arrangement - most dealers won't do this for you.
The key is to NOT negotiate with sales people - so don't buy the car where you tried it out.
Call all the other local dealers within a 75 mile radius and ask to speak with the fleet or internet manager. Tell each that you would like their best price, and that you need to be at invoice or below. Don't tell them what other offers you have already received, but they will ask that anyway. Let them know that you will not share their offer with anyone else either. If they think you are going to "shop" their price, they won't want to make you an offer. If you treat them with integrity, they will appreciate that and do the same to you.
All dealers have different policies about their bottom line - some may go below invoice, some will not. The key for you is to find the ones that will. Don't spend time chatting with the ones that won't, they will give you all kinds of excuses about their pricing and try to get you to go with them. Politely end the conversation as soon as you can.
If you feel uncomfortable with the dealer that is giving you the lowest price for whatever reason (bad chemistry with you, sounds sleezy, lots of sales bull, etc) go with the second lowest price.
I was a professional auto broker for 6 years, so know that this approach is effective. You will find out what the bottom in your area for the M37 is in the process. Other cars' bottom may be different (such as the 2011 BMW 535i - you won't get close to invoice right now), but use this same method to find whatever it is. Just an fyi, I found a dealer that would do $1,500 over invoice on the 535i, but just overall too expensive for me with the equipment I wanted.
If you have any other specific questions, please let me know, and good luck!