Last post on Feb 26, 2013 at 1:36 AM
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Toyota, Hyundai, Lexus, Ford, Audi, Automotive News, Legislation
#2235 of 2237 Re: some lawsuits winding down [srs_49]
Feb 24, 2013 (3:23 pm)
BUT... the livelock scenario has absolutely nothing to do with the code.(bad coding aside, of course)
Nobody ever has tested the thing for abuse. As in literally hit the thing with a stun gun or physical shock and crash(software/hardware, not THE car) the thing while the car is running. What happens?
Think of is as closer to the power supply on your PC. how often has it crashed where doing the three second reset hasn't worked? I bet it has happened to you at least once in your lifetime where you had to unplug the computer from the wall and restart it manually. The biggest tip-off is the start button not working to turn off the car. I suspect that the start button is really a power supply switch and it simply froze up.
I do know that if a car was having UA, unplugging the battery lead would kill the engine as it would physically disable the injectors and coil packs regardless of whatever the computer might be trying to tell it to do.
Is this Toyota's fault, though? Likely not. Computers crash for all sorts of non-code related reasons and none of them are covered under any warranty or service plan that I know of. So why does this matter to me, then? Because I see the same idiot designs in multiple cars and UA isn't confined to just a few Toyotas, either. The vehicles have to be designed to be fail-safe when it comes to the computers freezing while the car is running.
#2236 of 2237 Re: some lawsuits winding down [plekto]
Feb 24, 2013 (4:04 pm)
Computers crash for all sorts of non-code related reasons
Maybe, but i bet the large majority of PC crashes/hangups/BSDs are cause by software problems. Improper garbage collection, errant pointers accessing memory it shouldn't, etc are probably at the root of most crashes.
none of them are covered under any warranty or service plan that I know of
The typical shrink-wrap disclosure you're probably thinking of I don't think applies here. Did your car come with a lengthy EUA (End User Agreement) that says that none of the software on the vehicle is guaranteed to do anything correctly, and that if it does something wrong that causes loss of property or life that the SW vendor is not responsible?
#2237 of 2237 Re: some lawsuits winding down [srs_49]
Feb 26, 2013 (1:36 am)
No, but hardware faults such as bad memory modules are simply covered under the basic warranty. That you lose your data, well, it's never covered.
Toyota can't really be sued because of outside influences, corroded wiring harnesses, vibration and shock, and so on. At most, they would be forced to change their design, though, which would be a good thing. But there's no money in that, really, so the lawyers don't bother.
ie - what this entire "challenge" was about was not about finding the overall cause (no proper fail-safe designs in any of the drive-by-wire systems), but finding a cause that could end up in Toyota being sued for damages.