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Unintended Acceleration - Find the Cause

2237 messages,  Last post on Feb 26, 2013 at 1:36 AM

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What is this discussion about? Toyota, Hyundai, Lexus, Ford, Audi, Automotive News, Legislation

Messages Page 222 of 224

#2208 of 2237 Re: Forget the Red Button [kernick] by box1car

Dec 23, 2011 (10:24 pm)

Replying to: kernick (Dec 23, 2011 7:55 am)
When Rhonda Smith's Toyota was in runaway mode SUA, she used her blue
tooth cell phone to call her hub- The car slowed to 35mph. Question not asked
is "What NUMBERS did you dial?" The CRUISE CONTROL light was on, so it was
active. Her RF generator (cell phone) operates at about 14" wave length where any conductor of 7" would be fine tuned to receive that digital signal
Can we say Turn Signal Arm which connects into the Cruise Control. Operating
at 800 MHz, there's no way to get a card in edgewise from continuous signal
If she dialed 35, it wasn't God who intervened, it was her RF Cell Phone- duh

#2209 of 2237 Re: Forget the Red Button [wwest] by kernick

Dec 25, 2011 (4:25 am)

Replying to: wwest (Dec 23, 2011 7:25 pm)
Here's what I found:
 
Two hours and 10 minutes into the flight, the computers controlling the flight switched off the autopilot after becoming confused by conflicting speed readings, caused by the icing up of pitot tubes monitoring the plane's velocity.
 
"There was an inconsistency between the speeds displayed on the left side and the integrated standby instrument system (ISIS). This lasted for less than one minute," the BEA document said.
 
And:
 
By the time the Dubois appeared, just over a minute later, and as the plane began its fatal descent, another stall warning had been issued.
 
With the plane now rocking and falling at 10,000ft a minute, the pilot acknowledged the terrifying speed of the descent, saying "we're going to arrive at level 100", meaning 10,000ft.
 
At that point, just over a minute before the recordings stopped, the control sticks were used simultaneously, indicating the battle to control the plane had reached a frantic pitch. The pilot handed control to an unnamed colleague, presumed to be Dubois.
 
By now the "angle of attack", a critical indication of airflow over the wings, was at more than 35 degrees – nearly triple the outer limits for safe flight.
 
The BEA said the plane remained stalled throughout its three and a half minute descent, with the last recorded measurement showing the plane plummeting at 10,912ft per minute.
 
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/27/air-france-crash-inquiry
 
Summary: sensor failure, computer software can not comprehend the error, and professionals looking at the situation can not figure out the cause, system solution or engage a manual operation that is successful.
 
Everyone on that plane knew they were going down and in serious trouble.
 
I'm not saying all technology is useless; but there is an infinite number of chaotic events which can cause it to fail. And of course there are the systemic design flaws that all products have - as they are designed by humans.

#2210 of 2237 Re: Forget the Red Button [kernick] by wwest

Dec 25, 2011 (10:44 am)

Replying to: kernick (Dec 25, 2011 4:25 am)
It is very difficult, VERY, to push the nose down when you can see that the airplane is already descending at ~10,000FPM.

#2211 of 2237 Re: Forget the Red Button [box1car] by srs_49

Dec 25, 2011 (12:32 pm)

Replying to: box1car (Dec 23, 2011 10:24 pm)
Baloney. Takes A lot more thaan just the rf freq being tuned to match the hypothetical length of the wire to the turn signal stalk to couple a cmd into the ECU.

#2212 of 2237 Re: Forget the Red Button [wwest] by andres3

Jan 10, 2012 (9:02 am)

Replying to: wwest (Dec 22, 2011 7:17 pm)
Beyond that all you need to know is that computers often "crash" or get locked in executing a "deadly embrace.
 
I've had home computers lock up and "crash" more times than I can count. Not hardly at all on modern (last 7 years) computers, but that's another argument.
 
I've never, not once, had a computer in an automobile lockup in anyway that impaired any function in my control. It just doesn't happen.

#2213 of 2237 Re: Forget the Red Button [andres3] by vulpine

Jan 10, 2012 (10:23 am)

Replying to: andres3 (Jan 10, 2012 9:02 am)
Car computers have been problematical from the beginning. I'll grant that they are better, but they still fail in unexpected ways simply because extreme weather conditions wreak havoc with electronics. Something as simple as a cold solder joint will crack and break, given enough hot and cold cycles. Even components that 'live' in the cabin of the car and not under the hood can fail. A car's environment is nothing like the one in which your home or office computer works.
 
Never had one lock up that impaired function or control? Never had a radio fail? Never had your computerized air conditioning system fail? Never had that rear-window defogger fail? Any one of those is a control system. Maybe not in the same sense as the ECM or BCM, but those, too, fail. I should know--I've had more than one fail in more than one brand of automobile.

#2214 of 2237 Re: Forget the Red Button [vulpine] by andres3

Jan 10, 2012 (11:12 am)

Replying to: vulpine (Jan 10, 2012 10:23 am)
Never had one lock up that impaired function or control? Never had a radio fail? Never had your computerized air conditioning system fail?
 
Never had a radio fail.
 
My AC has failed, but it wasn't due to the computer, it was due to the compressor blowing up. It still blew air, but no cold air.
 
Never had that rear-window defogger fail? Nope. Although the rear windshield washer fluid sprayer has failed, but it is probably either the pump for the rear washer fluid, or most likely, a hole/leak in the tubing to get water all the way to the back from the front that has failed.

#2215 of 2237 A NASA Investigation by srs_49

Jan 10, 2012 (4:20 pm)

...finds tin whiskers in a Camry Accelerator Pedal Position Sensor that could cause erratic throttle response. They do not go as far as to say it is the cause of Toyota's UAEs.
 
EDN (Electronic Design News) Article
 
NASA Paper

#2216 of 2237 Re: A NASA Investigation [srs_49] by steve_ HOST

Jan 10, 2012 (6:11 pm)

Replying to: srs_49 (Jan 10, 2012 4:20 pm)
What a difference a year makes? Has NASA gone full circle? (no, that'd be an orbit).
 
Should have entered my guess in the million dollar contest.

#2217 of 2237 Re: Forget the Red Button [andres3] by wwest

Jan 11, 2012 (8:44 am)

Replying to: andres3 (Jan 10, 2012 9:02 am)
"...It just doesn't happen.."
 
Not to you, anyway. I'll put your vote in with the "pile" of >10,000,000.

Messages Page 222 of 224

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