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Unintended Acceleration - Find the Cause

2237 messages,  Last post on Feb 26, 2013 at 1:36 AM

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What is this discussion about? Toyota, Hyundai, Lexus, Ford, Audi, Automotive News, Legislation

Messages Page 221 of 224

#2201 of 2237 Re: Forget the Red Button [carguyfrank] by kernick

Dec 23, 2011 (7:55 am)

Replying to: carguyfrank (Dec 22, 2011 2:55 pm)
Why not just shift into neutral then apply the brakes....
Older cars - you're right. As soon as you talk about modern cars, you're talking about systems that are either networked or rely on the same processor boards. In that case it is just like hitting different keys on your keyboard; they should do different things, but they rely on some key component that is down. Or think of an electrical grid; it is not necessary for many individual things to fail, it just requires 1 critical item to fail, and then the rest of the grid is down.

#2202 of 2237 Re: Forget the Red Button [wwest] by kernick

Dec 23, 2011 (8:04 am)

Replying to: wwest (Dec 22, 2011 7:24 pm)
Don't like it. You must be an IT or EE guy. I'm a ChE process eng. and I will not let my backups, when possible, be another electronic system.
 
I have a machine here that sorts bottles with 1 subsystem using an optical sensor to detect the open end of the bottle. On the other end of the machine is a subsystem that sorts the up-and-down of a cap by using the weight differential - invoking gravity. The cap subsystem has never failed. The Bottle sorter fails due to dust, misalignment and such. Maybe I'm still influenced by how many times the Robinsons could only stop the Robot by pulling his battery-pack.

#2203 of 2237 Re: Forget the Red Button [kernick] by wwest

Dec 23, 2011 (11:05 am)

Replying to: kernick (Dec 23, 2011 8:04 am)
Then were I you I wouldn't go flying on one of these newer airplanes.

#2204 of 2237 Re: Forget the Red Button [kernick] by carguyfrank

Dec 23, 2011 (11:37 am)

Replying to: kernick (Dec 23, 2011 7:55 am)
I would love to hear from someone that actually had the problem of unintended acceleration who then shifted the vehicle into neutral and then stopped.. Anyone out there?

#2205 of 2237 Re: Forget the Red Button [carguyfrank] by houdini1

Dec 23, 2011 (11:59 am)

Replying to: carguyfrank (Dec 23, 2011 11:37 am)
Actually it did happen to me back around 1957. I was driving an almost new 1957 Mercury Monterey. My mother was a passenger. The gas pedal stuck, I stomped on it a couple of times, did not work, so I shifted the auto to neutral, turned the ignition off, and coasted to the side of the road. No problem and no big deal. I was 15 years old at the time.
 
It started right up afterwards and drove normally. Turned out it was a bad spring or something like that.

#2206 of 2237 Re: Forget the Red Button [wwest] by kernick

Dec 23, 2011 (5:00 pm)

Replying to: wwest (Dec 23, 2011 11:05 am)
Sort of like the Air France crew that didn't realize their air speed sensors had failed, and proceeded to stall the plane over the Atlantic?

#2207 of 2237 Re: Forget the Red Button [kernick] by wwest

Dec 23, 2011 (7:25 pm)

Replying to: kernick (Dec 23, 2011 5:00 pm)
The latest news I have seen indicated the airplane never stalled, the crew simply continued to "fly" in a descending attitude, unknowingly, until they contacted the ocean surface.

#2208 of 2237 Re: Forget the Red Button [kernick] by box1car

Dec 23, 2011 (10:24 pm)

Replying to: kernick (Dec 23, 2011 7:55 am)
When Rhonda Smith's Toyota was in runaway mode SUA, she used her blue
tooth cell phone to call her hub- The car slowed to 35mph. Question not asked
is "What NUMBERS did you dial?" The CRUISE CONTROL light was on, so it was
active. Her RF generator (cell phone) operates at about 14" wave length where any conductor of 7" would be fine tuned to receive that digital signal
Can we say Turn Signal Arm which connects into the Cruise Control. Operating
at 800 MHz, there's no way to get a card in edgewise from continuous signal
If she dialed 35, it wasn't God who intervened, it was her RF Cell Phone- duh

#2209 of 2237 Re: Forget the Red Button [wwest] by kernick

Dec 25, 2011 (4:25 am)

Replying to: wwest (Dec 23, 2011 7:25 pm)
Here's what I found:
 
Two hours and 10 minutes into the flight, the computers controlling the flight switched off the autopilot after becoming confused by conflicting speed readings, caused by the icing up of pitot tubes monitoring the plane's velocity.
 
"There was an inconsistency between the speeds displayed on the left side and the integrated standby instrument system (ISIS). This lasted for less than one minute," the BEA document said.
 
And:
 
By the time the Dubois appeared, just over a minute later, and as the plane began its fatal descent, another stall warning had been issued.
 
With the plane now rocking and falling at 10,000ft a minute, the pilot acknowledged the terrifying speed of the descent, saying "we're going to arrive at level 100", meaning 10,000ft.
 
At that point, just over a minute before the recordings stopped, the control sticks were used simultaneously, indicating the battle to control the plane had reached a frantic pitch. The pilot handed control to an unnamed colleague, presumed to be Dubois.
 
By now the "angle of attack", a critical indication of airflow over the wings, was at more than 35 degrees – nearly triple the outer limits for safe flight.
 
The BEA said the plane remained stalled throughout its three and a half minute descent, with the last recorded measurement showing the plane plummeting at 10,912ft per minute.
 
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/27/air-france-crash-inquiry
 
Summary: sensor failure, computer software can not comprehend the error, and professionals looking at the situation can not figure out the cause, system solution or engage a manual operation that is successful.
 
Everyone on that plane knew they were going down and in serious trouble.
 
I'm not saying all technology is useless; but there is an infinite number of chaotic events which can cause it to fail. And of course there are the systemic design flaws that all products have - as they are designed by humans.

#2210 of 2237 Re: Forget the Red Button [kernick] by wwest

Dec 25, 2011 (10:44 am)

Replying to: kernick (Dec 25, 2011 4:25 am)
It is very difficult, VERY, to push the nose down when you can see that the airplane is already descending at ~10,000FPM.

Messages Page 221 of 224

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