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#2198 of 2264 Re: Forget the Red Button [houdini1]
Dec 22, 2011 (6:17 pm)
A documented sitution is not really required...
The "shifter" does not directly shift gears, it only changes the open/closure of a switch set/group that directs the ECU, computer, as to which gear (or not) you wish to be in.
Beyond that all you need to know is that computers often "crash" or get locked in executing a "deadly embrace.
No computer "monitoring", "polling" those switches, no shift into neutral.
#2199 of 2264 Re: Forget the Red Button [kernick]
Dec 22, 2011 (6:24 pm)
No, the simple, simplest, solution is to have an independent computer, separate control channel, watching the EFI injectors' PWM and the brake light switch. If the EFI's PWM doesn't drop to idle level with the brake light switch "on" then the "separate channel/path" control computer will open (relay) the EFI circuit.
#2200 of 2264 Re: Forget the Red Button [wwest]
Dec 23, 2011 (6:05 am)
In your personal experience, have you ever known of this to actually happen?
I can give you several instances which happened to me back in the '60's where various MANUAL transmissions got hung up and would not shift at all. Our family had a fairly new International pick-up where gears would hang up. We also had a Nash Rambler that this would happen to. My brother-in-law had one of those small Metropolitans, and the gears would frequently hang up.
#2201 of 2264 Re: Forget the Red Button [carguyfrank]
Dec 23, 2011 (6:55 am)
Why not just shift into neutral then apply the brakes....
Older cars - you're right. As soon as you talk about modern cars, you're talking about systems that are either networked or rely on the same processor boards. In that case it is just like hitting different keys on your keyboard; they should do different things, but they rely on some key component that is down. Or think of an electrical grid; it is not necessary for many individual things to fail, it just requires 1 critical item to fail, and then the rest of the grid is down.
#2202 of 2264 Re: Forget the Red Button [wwest]
Dec 23, 2011 (7:04 am)
Don't like it. You must be an IT or EE guy. I'm a ChE process eng. and I will not let my backups, when possible, be another electronic system.
I have a machine here that sorts bottles with 1 subsystem using an optical sensor to detect the open end of the bottle. On the other end of the machine is a subsystem that sorts the up-and-down of a cap by using the weight differential - invoking gravity. The cap subsystem has never failed. The Bottle sorter fails due to dust, misalignment and such. Maybe I'm still influenced by how many times the Robinsons could only stop the Robot by pulling his battery-pack.
#2203 of 2264 Re: Forget the Red Button [kernick]
Dec 23, 2011 (10:05 am)
Then were I you I wouldn't go flying on one of these newer airplanes.
#2204 of 2264 Re: Forget the Red Button [kernick]
Dec 23, 2011 (10:37 am)
I would love to hear from someone that actually had the problem of unintended acceleration who then shifted the vehicle into neutral and then stopped.. Anyone out there?
#2205 of 2264 Re: Forget the Red Button [carguyfrank]
Dec 23, 2011 (10:59 am)
Actually it did happen to me back around 1957. I was driving an almost new 1957 Mercury Monterey. My mother was a passenger. The gas pedal stuck, I stomped on it a couple of times, did not work, so I shifted the auto to neutral, turned the ignition off, and coasted to the side of the road. No problem and no big deal. I was 15 years old at the time.
It started right up afterwards and drove normally. Turned out it was a bad spring or something like that.
#2206 of 2264 Re: Forget the Red Button [wwest]
Dec 23, 2011 (4:00 pm)
Sort of like the Air France crew that didn't realize their air speed sensors had failed, and proceeded to stall the plane over the Atlantic?
#2207 of 2264 Re: Forget the Red Button [kernick]
Dec 23, 2011 (6:25 pm)
The latest news I have seen indicated the airplane never stalled, the crew simply continued to "fly" in a descending attitude, unknowingly, until they contacted the ocean surface.