Last post on Feb 26, 2013 at 1:36 AM
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Toyota, Hyundai, Lexus, Ford, Audi, Automotive News, Legislation
#2188 of 2237 Re: Inability to Stop [srs_49]
Dec 12, 2011 (11:12 am)
I don't have one, but I thought I saw in print somewhere that some vehicles with keyless systems use a "press and hold to stop" already. Perhaps they just don't print it on the button (how much can you print on the button, and expect operators to read).
Great that these systems have a soft "off" switch, supposing there's even a real off switch, they will however not prevent a real danger and common cause of unintended acceleration, that of driver error.
#2189 of 2237 Forget the Red Button
Dec 12, 2011 (2:27 pm)
As I have said for the past two years: Just put the car into neutral. then apply the brakes, it will stop! duh!
#2190 of 2237 Re: Forget the Red Button [carguyfrank]
Dec 12, 2011 (3:07 pm)
We MUST assume that some rather serious failure has occurred in which case the engine/transaxle control computer may be "out to lunch" and thereby not responding to ANY driver control inputs, including a 3 second depression of the Start/Stop PB. That might be the case even of actually having an ignition key to switch OFF.
In the case of some of the new hybrids with E-braking (a spring is used to simulate brake pedal foot [back]pressure) even the brake pedal might prove to be inoperative.
#2191 of 2237 Re: Forget the Red Button [wwest]
by steve_ HOST
Dec 12, 2011 (3:42 pm)
Better spring for the ejection seat option.
#2192 of 2237 Re: Forget the Red Button [steve_]
Dec 17, 2011 (11:55 am)
Considering that a typical PC power supply uses a similar "push for three seconds to power off" circuit in it, and often it will simply NOT respond and require you to manually hit the power switch on the back of the computer, the only proper solution would be to install a switch under the dashboard that kills the power to the entire computer. Of course, it should be a big 10+lb hard to move switch like you see on old vacuum cleaners and the like.
The other option, of course, is to just drive a manual. Clutch in, move to neutral - problem solved, even if the engine is still going crazy.
#2193 of 2237 Re: Forget the Red Button [plekto]
Dec 17, 2011 (4:02 pm)
Don't manuals have computers in there somewhere too?
Many here have said that in Toyota's case, the computer would not let you shift into neutral...so I guess the computer could also stop you from shifting into neutral with a manual.
The darn thing would also probably prevent you from pushing the kill switch.
This whole thing was a tempest in a teapot. Driver error explains everything.
#2194 of 2237 Re: Forget the Red Button [houdini1]
Dec 21, 2011 (8:40 pm)
A manual transmission has a clutch, though, which acts as a purely mechanical means of physically pulling the gears apart. And most manuals have a similar setup for neutral as well where it physically moves the gears out of contact with each other.
You'll note that not a single case of UA involved a manual transmission vehicle, though there were a few reports of engines racing out of control.
#2195 of 2237 Re: Forget the Red Button [plekto]
Dec 22, 2011 (2:48 pm)
Agree that a manual, mechanical device is the best way to assure the driver has the ultimate control. Electronics can freeze-up for no apparent reason. The best example of electronic controls not working at all times, is waiting for you to type on it. How many devices and times have you found the best way to fix an electronic problem is to reboot or power-down?
My suggestion was a lever or handle under the dashboard, attached to a rod to a ball-valve in the fuel-line. Normally it is fully open. You need to kill the engine in an emergency you turn the handle 90-degrees. With no new fuel, the engine dies in a few seconds, no ifs ands, or buts.
Sensors and other electronics are convenient, nice, and usually work. When they don't, the average person is going to have a hard time making the right choices.
#2196 of 2237 Re: Forget the Red Button [kernick]
Dec 22, 2011 (2:55 pm)
Why not just shift into neutral then apply the brakes....
#2197 of 2237 Re: Forget the Red Button [carguyfrank]
Dec 22, 2011 (6:36 pm)
Their claim is that the computer sometimes can prevent you from shifting into neutral with an automatic transmission.
Does anyone know of a documented situation where someone was prevented from shifting into neutral due to computer malfunction?