Last post on Mar 04, 2011 at 4:00 PM
You are in the Subaru Legacy & Outback
What is this discussion about?
Subaru Legacy, Subaru Outback, Sedan, Wagon
Mar 01, 2010 (7:40 pm)
After arguments, the manufacturer agreed to replace the 4 tires free of charge!
New tires (same model) were installed, balanced and 4 wheel drive alignment was performed.
One interesting detail: I asked the dealer how he inflated the new set. His (surprising)
answer: (per the manufacturer recommendation) - 32psi in front, 30 in the rear!
I was very surprised by this answer and took that in writing.
(BTW - I don't haul heavy loads, unless if my wife's shopping at Costco can be considered so...)
#11 of 29 Re: Happy Ending! [mikeber55]
Mar 01, 2010 (7:45 pm)
Excellent news! For this set of tires, keep records of what tire is where and how they are rotated, along with mileage on the tires at each rotation and tread depth. That way, you may be able to isolate the primary problem (if it persists) to a certain position on the car....
#12 of 29 Incorrect Tire Placard/underinflation
Mar 06, 2010 (6:38 pm)
Hello All: about 2 weeks ago, I realized (purely by accident) that I've been running my tires underinflated because the dealership didn't put the correct tire placard on at delivery (~15 months ago, 18K miles of driving) These are Toyo Proxes 4 (235/35/ZR19) installed on TRD (Toyota Racing Development) 19"x8" wheels on a Scion xB (2009) The tires have less than 2/32 left on both inside and outside shoulders and about 5-6/32 in the center of the tires. What should I do? I've contacted Scion customer service and they have opened a case. Also, about 11 months ago, I had to replace a rim after hitting a small pothole...I'm thinking the rim wouldn't have been damaged if the tires were inflated properly. Scion says the fault is "totally" with the dealer and the dealer says they have never installed "replacement" placards (It is a federal law/regulation BTW)
#13 of 29 Re: Incorrect Tire Placard/underinflation [alexandy]
Mar 07, 2010 (6:20 am)
Just so we are all on the same page:
Your vehicle tire placard ought to say the original tire size was either 215/45ZR17 or 225/40R18 both inflated to 32 psi front / 29 psi rear.
It turns out that a 235/35ZR19 has the same inflation pressure characteristics as the original tire sizes - and therefore, the inflation pressure listed on the vehicle tire placard would be the same. So there is something else causing the tire wear issue, not the inflation pressure.
Second, the law concerning vehicle tire placards is a little vague when it comes to replacing the original tires (meaning the ones supplied at the vehicle assembly plant - and therefore, what is listed on the vehicle tire placard.)
Clearly, the original vehicle tire placard has to match what was applied at the vehicle assembly plant. However, if the vehicle is substantially modified, then the "Modifier" becomes the "Manufacturer" and is now responsible for the vehicle tire placard. It is not unusual for certain modifications to be made to incoming vehicle BEFORE they reach the dealership. The question about what is a "Substantial Modification" is the problem area.
It has been agreed that if the vehicle's engine, drivetrain (I'm thinking 4X2 to 4X4 conversions) and body work modifications (other than paint), then that would constitute enough of a change that the modifier becomes the manufacturer.
But it is unclear if merely changing tire sizes is enough - and the result is that many vehicles are modified by changing to fancier rims as well as changing tire sizes, and the vehicle tire placards are NOT changed. The legality of this modification is unclear.
So what is it that caused your unusual tire wear if it wasn't the inflation pressure?
Too many possibilities to list, but here are some:
* - Rim width too wide
* - Akerman ( a steering geometry issue)
* - "Spirited" driving
* - "City" driving (meaning many turns compared to the miles driven in a straight line)
* - The design of the tire
Your best bet is to call Toyo and plead your case - hoping they will take pity on you and give to a discount on another set. Be aware that your tires DO NOT carry a mileage warranty, so anything they offer is a "Goodwill" gesture on their part.
and another thing to be aware of: Tires are never covered by the vehicle manufacturer's warranty. They are only covered by the tire manufacturer's warranty and for original equipment tires, they will never carry a mileage warranty.
And to answer your other questions:
Why is Scion not responsible? Because they didn't supply the tires.
Why is the dealer not responsible? Because they didn't modify the vehicle - and while they may or may not have known the vehicle was modified, their recourse is through the modifier who will, in turn, deflect that to the tire manufacturer.
#14 of 29 Re: Incorrect Tire Placard/underinflation [capriracer]
Mar 07, 2010 (6:52 pm)
Actually...all 2nd Gen Scion xBs come with 205/55/R16 and the placard shows 35psi front and 32psi rear. The "Delivered Vehicle" was with 235/35/ZR19 which according to Scion Customer Support, should have come with a tire placard stating such and the proper pressure of 39psi front and 37psi rear. So the uneven tire wear is because of underinflation. Everyone agrees that a mistake was made by the dealer and the dealer did sell me the wheels and tires...it was a vehicle option. I'm thinking the tires should be replaced now because I've never actually gotten the performance of this expensive tire...Initially, I was driving on mostly the shoulders (wearing them down) and now with proper pressure, I'm driving on the middle of the tire. My research of tire placard responsibility is that the original seller (Toyota/Scion "IS" responsible to put the proper tire placard on at time of Sale (Scion Customer Service confirms this)
thanks for your replay
#15 of 29 Re: Incorrect Tire Placard/underinflation [alexandy]
Mar 08, 2010 (4:39 am)
I'm sorry,. I looked on the wrong page.
Yes, Toyo and Scion Customer service are correct about the tire pressure.
Nevertheless, they are wrong about the dealer being required to change the vehicle tire placard. If they changed the vehicle, they've done it on a "option" that really isn't an option. In other words, they aren't "remanufacturing the vehicle" - this gray area I discussed earlier.
What they did was make it easy for the consumer to customize his vehicle - and while it would be a good idea to change the placard and make sure the consumer is informed about the proper pressure, they are not under any legal obligation to do so.
Neverthless, that is a good "hook" to get them to give you some compensaion on the next set of tires. Be sure to work through them and don't do it yourself first, then confornt them with the issue.
Oh, and it is always a good tactic to mention that you'll be purchasing other vehicles from them and will otherwise recommend their dealership to friend and family if only they would take care of this one little thing for you.
#16 of 29 OE tires - junk!!!
Mar 08, 2010 (10:10 am)
I replaced my OE tires on 3.6R on the next day after purchase.
#17 of 29 Re: Incorrect Tire Placard/underinflation [alexandy]
Mar 08, 2010 (12:05 pm)
39/37 psi? Really?
That seems unusually high.
My Sienna calls for 35psi and that surprised me. My Miata is something like 28psi.
#18 of 29 Re: OE tires - junk!!! [ingvar]
Mar 08, 2010 (1:54 pm)
I share your high opinion of Subaru's choice of OE tires.
#19 of 29 Re: Incorrect Tire Placard/underinflation [ateixeira]
Mar 08, 2010 (7:44 pm)
Yes, 39 / 37. Here's why.
Most cars are fitted with Standard Load (SL) tires - where the maximum load carrying capacity occurs at 35 psi. For practical purposes, 26 psi is the lowest pressure that can be used on a passenger car tire. So the range of pressures listed on the vehicle tire placard for passenger cars is 26 to 35 psi.
However, the tires under discussion were not supplied by the vehicle manufacturer and are Extra Load (XL) tires. XL tires are tires that can carry more load than SL tires, by using more inflation pressure (up to 41 psi). Put a different way, the load carrying capacity needed to match the higher profile SL tires that came originally on the vehicle required the use of an XL tire at higher pressure.
This is not unusual for Plus Size fitments.