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Toyota Camry, Toyota RAV4, Toyota Highlander, Toyota Corolla, Toyota Avalon, Toyota Tundra, Toyota Sequoia, Pontiac Vibe, Automotive News
#881 of 3623 Re: Foolishness of 3 second delay [sharonkl]
Feb 06, 2010 (6:18 pm)
I had to run to store, and then back researching. Thanks for responding.
Those of you others addressing full out acceleration and brakes - there is section addressing this question posed by you. Review summary at end. Answers some questions. Seems full out throttle , the vacuum power assist of brakes cannot be replenished and effectiveness of brakes significantly reduced. Brake force in excess of 150 pounds was required to stop vehicle. Compared to 30 pounds operating normally. You can read rest.
One of many Pictures included.
Picture showing how pedal stuck with all weather floor mat looks good.
I did go out to attempt this in my RAV4 as I have two layers of carpets in my vehicle. Before anyone gets upset & scolds me - is no issue as had already checked when I left both in. Rubber mat has rubber prongs throughout on bottom that grab carpet and it stays in place. My mats don't move period. Mine are Standard Toyota RAV4 All Weather Rubber Floormats. Distance from mats in position on floor to raised pedal area is approximately 2-3 inches. Floor pedal area is raised surface above floor base..
I attempted to place my rubber mat in position so when pedal fully compressed it would get stuck. Wow - so difficult. Mat would have to be moved so far ahead and up into raised part of floor into pedal area - just in the precise position to replicate this picture and make pedal stick. Find difficult to see it move(mine don't) that far up if mat has rubber prongs - rubber mats are not smooth on bottom. And I discovered pedal would have to be fullly depressed first to actually get it stuck - could not have pedal up and then fully depress & get it stuck.. I tried many times. My RAV4 pedal appears same outwardly- not sure.
RAV4 is not ES350. So can only assume could be different configuration.
DHTSA does seem to send out letters to investigate floormats.. Results given in this report. I do see one fault and can not comment. Report statements too vague, and no complete details listing questions asked. This particular sections does reveal faulty statistical research data. Interesting 59 of 600 that responded had UA - & 35 c/o pedal interference w rubber floor mat. But still vague stated results. No reference to questions actually asked. Medical statistical research data I have helped review & discuss for Diabetes usually has.
Here is link from DHTSA Final Report April 30, 2008
re: 2007 Lexus ES-350 Unintended Accleration
Have not fully analyzed anything else as yet. Will let you form your own
#883 of 3623 Re: Just got my Gas Pedal Fixed for the Recal at Toyota Today and........... [graphicguy]
Feb 06, 2010 (6:59 pm)
Many consumers are not totally aware of the issues with the recall. And enough will not pay attention. Time will tell.
#884 of 3623 Re: Toyota Halts Sales of Popular Models - Accelerator Stuck Problem Recall [gagrice]
Feb 06, 2010 (7:16 pm)
Must have been him as I could tell by the broken english.
#885 of 3623 Re: Toyota Halts Sales of Popular Models - Accelerator Stuck Problem Recall [explorerx4]
Feb 06, 2010 (7:35 pm)
Yup,that was a hoot !! Maybe he is from China trying to get a foothold through the import mantra !! Boy,you need some serious talent to write that article..He is da man!!
#886 of 3623 Are the Toyota dealers back in business?
Feb 06, 2010 (9:10 pm)
Are the fixes being put into the cars on the lot and business as usual? How long will they hold off on selling their vehicles?
#888 of 3623 Re: Foolishness of 3 second delay [wwest]
Feb 07, 2010 (6:11 am)
If the brake pressure goes above a certain threshold and the throttle sensor isn't near idle then OPEN the EFI ground return circuit.
You're relying on sensors and software again. We have plenty of machines in our factory that jam each day because a sensor gets a piece of fuzz across it, or the sensor got bumped and knocked out of alignment. Brake pressure would be monitored by a pressure transducer, which then sends a 4-20mA signal to an I/O board which then has software to correlate that into a pressure reading and process that. How is all that more reliable then a button connected via a mechanical rod, to a valve that is mechanically powered by pre-loaded springs.
I'm proposing something simple like a bear-trap (leg-trap). Look up U.S. electrical codes and documents from OSHA and you'll see the codes on how E-Stop systems should work. These sorts of concepts for factory and industrial equipment apparently haven't made their way into many consumer products.
On 2nd though I do have one that might meet that concept. My Sears garden-tractor, has a mechanical-rod under the seat, such that you need about 50 LB of weight on the seat for it to stay running. The battery is right there. You get up off the seat, or fall off on an incline, and the engine stops. The whole tractor cost $900. These safeties to kill the engine can be rather cheap. We don't need all sorts of electronics on board a vehicle to kill the power.
#889 of 3623 Re: Foolishness of 3 second delay [kernick]
Feb 07, 2010 (6:34 am)
The simple solution is to go back to the regular old ignition key switch. It directly cut power to the engine. They worked very well without all the confusion. Get rid of the steering wheel lock associated. If they want to keep that tie it to locking the car.
The unneeded complexity is what turned me off on the hybrids. I was an early proponent. Then when people were stalling on the Interstate by the dozens I had to rethink the whole concept. In 50+ years of driving, much in some of the worst weather known to man, I never felt the need for any of the modern electronic devices in a car. Besides a radio. If I had my way ABS, and all the rest would be stuffed up the tailpipe of the regulators at the EPA, NHTSA, CARB and any other meddling agency.
#890 of 3623 Re: Foolishness of 3 second delay [kernick]
Feb 07, 2010 (6:57 am)
"...relying on sensors and software again..."
Yes, but only as a backup, failsafe, in case the primary control system fails.
The probability of both systems failing simultaneously approaches nil'lity