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Toyota Halts Sales of Popular Models - Accelerator Stuck Problem Recall

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#255 of 3593 Re: Toyota Halts Sales of Popular Models - Accelerator Stuck Problem Recall [kdhspyder] by popsavalon

Jan 31, 2010 (2:42 pm)

Replying to: kdhspyder (Jan 31, 2010 1:29 pm)
K, if you are talking about brake overrides being installed on new Toyota vehicles coming down the assembly lines since Dec., maybe it's true but I doubt it.
 
 As an 2007 Avalon owner that would be involved in any recall work such as modified gas pedals, replacement of pedal assemblies, etc., I can assure you that NOTHING has happened at the dealers. I did get a letter telling me to put the floor mats in the trunk until further notice!
 
Those are the facts!

#256 of 3593 Accelerator Stuck Problems - Toyota by sharonkl

Jan 31, 2010 (3:32 pm)

I am a first time present owner of a Toyota, and this "out of control acceleration complaint" problem and now the recall has me researching and investigating the issues. First of all these vehiclles appear to have electronic throttle systems and appear to be connnected by a wire to the gas pedal. What complicates the problem, accleration is actually controlled by electronics. Yes, computers/computer sensors are assisting the gas pedal with acceleration. These computers/sensors actually tell what the throttle should do. We press on the pedal, and message relaye to computer sensors, etc. I am sure we are all familiar with electronics/computers/etc. today, and we do know undeniably failure can most certainly exist. So from what I have read and see in researching issue is complex, and am not sure this is all just a simple pedal issue. Many multiple unbiased experts have publicly stated same. Past history reveals many auto manufacturers installed many of these new electronic computer system features, and complaints & problems increased dramatically. And manufacturers had to perfect, take out, etc. And is to be expected. If problem is intermittant, and vehicle is running normal during test, any read outs Toyota does will not pick up anything is wrong. Only when a vehicle can be put into that problem state can computers pick problem up - MAYBE???? Toyotas do have little black recording boxes - same as airplanes do. Remember when there are airline crashes experts always want these plane's black boxes to help determine cause. Black boxes may not determine cause, but black box can tell what was happening at that time. 2001-2001 US government did pass a law on these little black boxes in autos for standards, etc.. Black boxes were to be readily available for public viewing, but an extension was given to 2012. NOW - so far only Ford, Chrysler, & ?(forget which other) have made these black boxes readily available. Toyota refuses to release information from their black boxes, even during this whole complaint process. Owners have taken vehicles in with these complaints and asked service center at Toyota to review the computer readouts. Service centers refused to allow owners to see(per reports). I am very confused here, I had an auto with a problem before where I was able to review.this data???? I asked as I was paying for the service, and I felt I was protecting myself, plus service center agreed as well. They were quite helpful, and was educational. During my research across many auto safety sites, consumer reports, etc have found Toyota has only one place here in US that can read these black boxes. My assumption is possibly Toyota service centers log into this site for readouts, etc??? Toyota acceleration complaints amount to 40% of all manufacturer complaints. Ford also has high number as well, but lower than Toyota.
FACT:
(1)Complaints are small compared to the number of vehicles sold.
(2)Problems for complaints of accleration have existed for about 10 years for Toyota, with increase of complaints since electronic throttle systems installed..
(2)Increased out of control acceleration problem HIGH RISK EXPOSURE for public- quite high for accidents which may cause great bodily harm or even death. Most brake systems cannot stop an out of control racing vehicle. But sometimes can. Let's forget well drivers should know what to do excuse. My concern is safety for owners/consumer/public. Fact is most drivers will hit brakes in emergency. Facts demontrate brakes don't always stop these problem vehicles. The value of a human life should always be everyone's main concern .
(3)Emergency situation - yes human error may be present when dealing with this emergency - but why should they be put in this emergency situation where brakes do not work? Isn't this a nautural instinct to apply brakes? Sure it is! But wait, brakes dont' work here many times!!! Consumer Reports auto engineer auto comparison demonstration between Toyota and VW undeniably reveals to public if you only pump brakes 3-4 times whole brake system fails. Result is car continues racing out of control. Engineer also states braking system on tested Toyota vehicle does not have strong enough braking system to stop an uncontrolled increase acceleration problem vehicle.. Many people also forget old teachings put car in neutral. This mistake is only a human reaction to a difficult emergency situation. Maybe they forgot. But they do remember to brake - but brakes don't always work. Big problem!!! These all all small human errors. Why human errors were not factored into safety devices or these issues is big question I have..
(4)Toyota presently has no brake override system installed in their vehicles. Many European, some American auto Manufacturers already have this feature for consumer safety & good PR. This is a protective mechanism system to prevent run away cars. When brake applied brakes override any computer acceleration messages.
(5)NOW - after 10 years - November 25, 2009 Toyota announces they will install brake override sytems on all of their 2001 vehicles. Then have seen in recent announcement Toyota will install these system on some of recalled models, but not all. I have not verified this last statement, but have seen this multiple places.
(6)Biggest issues I have had researching - Toyota has always seemed to blame it on the owners way too many times, blamed it on floor mats and then gas pedal and denied any computer problems when they have sole control of their technology printouts so no one can check validity of their claims, seem to play low profile with no immediate public announcements for reassurance to, no announcement in San Francisco Chronicle today from Toyota as they said they were going to publish information today in major newspapers(maybe I misunderstood?). Toyota has had long standing reputation for reliabily and they are presently number one auto dealer in US. I was truly hoping to see a more proactive honorable PR approach displayed by Toyota. This would have been well received and they would have been praised by news media. Public/consumers would have admired them. . .

#257 of 3593 Re: Toyota Halts Sales of Popular Models - Accelerator Stuck Problem Recall [popsavalon] by kdhspyder

Jan 31, 2010 (3:48 pm)

Replying to: popsavalon (Jan 31, 2010 2:42 pm)
Since December the older vehicles that were being brought in for the original mat recall were getting the brake override added, where possible.
 
If you have a new one ready to go I'd simply ask the service manager if the override was added or not. If not have it done.

#258 of 3593 .What is causing the sudden acceleration in Toyota where the pedals are not by revit

Jan 31, 2010 (4:04 pm)

So can anyone answer the most important question...What is causing the sudden acceleration in Toyota where the pedals are not involved?
 
Toyota Sudden Acceleration Recall Lawsuit
 
I also found this time-line quite helpful from the same website link above...thanks to Ennis & Ennis, a law firm that seems to really know their stuff and helpful information.
 

#259 of 3593 Re: Accelerator Stuck Problems - Toyota [sharonkl] by kdhspyder

Jan 31, 2010 (4:05 pm)

Replying to: sharonkl (Jan 31, 2010 3:32 pm)
A good part of this rant is false. It too is based on the falsifications in the LA Times story. This is just another case of another brand new poster suddenly pretending to be a first time owner and ready to bash Toyota to death based on a false story and incorrect interpretation of the facts. To me it's more of a coordinated attack on the internet forums. Edmunds isn't the only site where these new posters have suddenly appeared
 
Some of the statements above are factual but many are erroneous.
 
This is Toyota's response to the spurious article in the LAT back in December as reported here at Edmunds.
Toyota has a long history of building safe, reliable and high quality
vehicles, and we are committed to the highest levels of consumer safety
and satisfaction with our products. Toyota vehicles are carefully and
rigorously tested, and are all engineered to meet or exceed the high
standards set by Federal regulators.
We cooperate fully with all investigating and regulatory agencies who
request information and data about Toyota vehicles involved in
accidents. Further, we always strive to provide complete and accurate
information to our product safety regulators.
Communications with consumers about safety recalls are strictly regulated and
Toyota adheres to these regulations. Toyota has absolutely not minimized public
awareness of any defect or issue with respect to its vehicles. Any suggestion to
the contrary is wrong and borders on irresponsibility.
We are confident that the measures we are taking
address the root cause and will reduce the risk of pedal entrapment.
Nonetheless, Toyota will remain vigilant in thoroughly investigating and
taking appropriate measures to address any defect trends that are
identified.
With respect to the questions you have raised, here are some key facts that
should set the record straight.
QUESTIONS
Q1: In 2003, Toyota engineers discovered a defect in Sienna minivans that could cause them to accelerate without driver input. The problem was corrected on the assembly line, but at least 26,000 vans had already been manufactured, according to NHTSA documents. If this is correct, why did Toyota not move to correct the problem in those vehicles immediately, and why did it wait until 2008 to inform NHTSA of the defect and until this year to recall those vehicles? Also, it appears that only around 1/6th of those 25,000 vehicles have been repaired in the recall. Why so few?
Toyota does not agree that its engineers discovered a defect in Sienna minivans
that could cause them to accelerate without driver input. Here are the facts: in
April 2003, during dynamometer testing inside the Toyota factory, a hard plastic
trim panel attached to the center console trapped the accelerator pedal. The root
cause was a missing attachment clip.
A safety recall was not deemed necessary because immediately following the
incident, Toyota conducted an investigation, including checking more than 200
vehicles in the plant and the shipping yard. No vehicle was found with a missing
clip. In addition, there were no warranty claims or reports of a missing clip at that
time. Toyota determined that the missing clip was an isolated incident.
After evaluation and redesign, in June 2003, a hard plastic trim panel of a
different shape was implemented as an additional safety measure. Based upon
the trim panel’s design, if the attachment clip were to be missing, the trim panel’s
increased resistance would make pedal entrapment very unlikely. The only way
the clip will ever be missing is if the clip is not properly replaced after performing
a repair operation which involves removal of the trim panel.
In 2006, a sole customer complained about a pre-June 2003 trim panel
interfering with the accelerator pedal. The report to Federal regulators of the
complaint indicated that the owner had repairs done that involved removing the
trim panel to access HVAC components.
In August, 2008, Federal regulators opened an investigation. On January 14,
2009, Toyota advised regulators that “Toyota has not determined that the
condition is a ‘safety related defect’. Toyota agreed, however, to voluntarily
undertake a campaign to provide owners of the older vehicles with newly
designed trim panels. In response to Toyota’s voluntary campaign, regulators
closed the investigation.
As for the number of vehicles repaired, Toyota’s activities to encourage
customers to bring their vehicles in are consistent with industry practice and
Federal regulations. Typically, the rate of recall completion is affected by the age
of the vehicle.
Q2: Toyota has conducted numerous recalls related to sudden acceleration over the past decade in the U.S. and Canada, including two previous floor mat recalls. But the problem has continued. Does this mean that the previous recalls were not successful in eliminating the problems and if so, why not? In particular, why wasn’t the 2007 recall of Lexus ES and Camry floor mats effective in preventing catastrophic accidents such as the Saylor case?
Toyota has conducted two all-weather floor mat (AWFM) recalls after receiving
reports that if the floor mat (either by itself, or if it is placed on top of an existing
carpeted floor mat) is not secured by the retaining hooks, the mat can move
forward and interfere with the accelerator pedal returning to the idle position. If
the mat is properly secured, it will not interfere with the accelerator pedal.
As reported in the law enforcement investigation, the floor mat in the Saylor
accident was not only improperly secured, it was incompatible and incorrect for
the vehicle. The recall recently announced addresses the fact that incompatible
floor mats, or multiple floor mats could be installed and that the remedy must
address that possibility.
Toyota has a long history of building safe, reliable and high quality
vehicles, and we are committed to the highest levels of consumer safety
and satisfaction with our products. Toyota vehicles are carefully and
rigorously tested, and are all engineered to meet or exceed the high
standards set by Federal regulators.
We cooperate fully with all investigating and regulatory agencies who
request information and data about Toyota vehicles involved in
accidents. Further, we always strive to provide complete and accurate
information to our product safety regulators.
Communications with consumers about safety recalls are strictly regulated and
Toyota adheres to these regulations. Toyota has absolutely not minimized public
awareness of any defect or issue with respect to its vehicles. Any suggestion to
the contrary is wrong and borders on irresponsibility.
We are confident that the measures we are taking
address the root cause and will reduce the risk of pedal entrapment.
Nonetheless, Toyota will remain vigilant in thoroughly investigating and
taking appropriate measures to address any defect trends that are
identified.
With respe

#260 of 3593 Re: Accelerator Stuck Problems - Toyota [kdhspyder] by revit

Jan 31, 2010 (4:08 pm)

Replying to: kdhspyder (Jan 31, 2010 4:05 pm)
I am sorry you feel that way. Each of us are entitle to our own opinion. Personally, I thank the LATs for breaking this story and pushing more into the mainstream media...something Toyota was trying to avoid. In addition, the LATs isn't the only one to make these "claims". Go to google and conduct some searches...there is plenty of information out there that supports the findings from the LATs.
 
By they way, you seem to have an inside scoop are what is going on with Toyota by continuing to claim Toyota as being innocent and the problem is everyone else. Or you don't happen to work for Toyota do you or are in some way associated with their PR?

#261 of 3593 Re: Accelerator Stuck Problems - Toyota [revit] by kdhspyder

Jan 31, 2010 (4:22 pm)

Replying to: revit (Jan 31, 2010 4:08 pm)
No such statements were made by me. BTW how did you end up responding to the prior poster? Are you coordinating this campaign?
 
If there is a problem then it will be identified and fixed, the CTS pedals are case in point. That's all that can be stated. My personal experience after 20 yrs of driving Toyota's without a single glitch over 700,000 miles makes me more of an expert on actual fact than a biased desk-jockey at a failing rag looking to generate readership and searching spurious reports like the one you posted just above.
 
You copied that from an ambulance chaser's site of all places. Is there anything lower on the face of this earth? They and you by inclusion omitted all the facts which is typical of their ilk and now it appears the LAT too.

#262 of 3593 Toyota Consumer Affairs by revit

Jan 31, 2010 (4:27 pm)

I came across the following website and found it very helpful:
 
Toyota Consumer Affairs
 
It offers alot of actual experiences from other Toyota owners with links for problem prone areas.
 
Here is another for those that don't remember the Toyota Oil Days with actual stories from actual people:
 
Toyota engine seizure due to oil gel/sludge
 
Here is some good information of actual experiences with the sudden accelerations:
 
100 Toyota drivers filed complaints before recall
 
I cannot begin to imagine how some of those drivers must have felt. Maybe Toyota needs to talk with them directly to fully understand how this impacts consumers and why they have lost confidence in Toyota.

#263 of 3593 Re: Toyota Consumer Affairs [revit] by sharonkl

Jan 31, 2010 (4:55 pm)

Replying to: revit (Jan 31, 2010 4:27 pm)
Revit,
 
Many thanks for passing along this information. I appreciate any information I can find. This has been quite a project to research for nonbiased information. My son does engineering development for street/race cars, so he too has been quite helpful. Unfortunately most of his work involves Porsche, BMW, Audi, VW, Bentley

#264 of 3593 Buwahahahaha...Consumer Affairs by kdhspyder

Jan 31, 2010 (5:03 pm)

This is one of the best known of the ambulance chasers.
 
Actually it's sole purpose is to gather 'reports' without facts and then determine if class action suits are suitable by its scum-sucking lawyer owners. Here is the 'fine print on that website....
 
Are you hooked up with lawyers in some way?
Yes, lawyers read the complaints submitted to us by consumers. On occasion, the lawyers will find something they believe could form the basis of a class action suit on behalf of consumers. If a consumer has indicated on their complaint form that they want to be contacted by a lawyer, they then research the issue and, now and then, contact the consumer and file suit on his behalf. Since our founding, hundreds of class action suits have been filed on behalf of consumers. We are not a party to those actions and do not profit from them. Nor do we keep track of each individual suit, so we're not able to provide updates.
 
It's a fishnet for dissatisfied people founded by lawyers for their own profit. If you're using them as a source you're 10 yrs behind the times. They are universally villified for biased presentations in order to draw more fish into the nets.
 
As an example here's what it says about GM.
 
When you make as many cars as GM, you're bound to make some clunkers, as this ever-growing collection shows. Hoping to improve its image, GM has extended the warranty on its 2007 models.
 
Cars
 
Buick
Chevy Cavalier
Chevy Cobalt
Chevy Impala
Chevy Malibu
Pontiac
Trucks
 
Chevy 1500 Pickup
Chevy Blazer
GMC Sierra
Extreem
GMC Yukon
Silverado
Suburban
Tahoe
 General Problems
 
Airbags
Plastic Intake Manifold
DexCool
OnStar
Tailgates
Transmissions
Windshield wipers
Window motors
GM Truck Spare Tire Holders
  
   
 
Like other manufacturers, GM is often reluctant to publicly admit problems. Instead, it describes such things as banging engines in brand-new trucks as "perfectly normal," while secretly buying back vehicles from consumers who are assertive to retain a lawyer. It's been playing this little game lately with its full-sized pickups and SUVs.
 
Then there's DexCool, the standard coolant on many new GM vehicles. The owner's manual states that this stuff lasts up to 100,000 miles. In fact, in all too many cases, the coolant turns to gunk long before then, causing serious problems that include overheating and subsequent engine failure. GM knows about the problem but so far has refused to take responsibility.
 
One example:
GM likes to portray the Chevrolet Silverado as a big, tough truck that's ready to do a day's work and then go out rock-climbing. Maybe so, but some purchasers find it's a little more delicate than that, as the complaints in this section illustrate.
 
Silverado
• Brakes
• Engine noise
• Fire
• Transmission
• Misc. complaints
---
News
• Brake Problems Plague Silverado Owners
• GM Buys Back Some Models With Noisy Engines
  

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