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#2012 of 3623 The Saga Continues....
Mar 03, 2010 (4:28 am)
CHRISTINE TIERNEY AND NATHAN HURST
The Detroit News
Washington --Toyota Motor Corp. officials insisted Tuesday in the strongest terms yet that there was no evidence that an electronic defect might be causing unintended acceleration of its vehicles despite compelling new data suggesting a link.
Claims data from insurer State Farm disclosed Tuesday suggests a strong connection between the introduction of electronic throttle control, also known as drive by wire, and events where drivers of Toyotas couldn't control their cars.
Claims relating to unintended acceleration in Toyota Camry sedans more than tripled in 2002 after the automaker introduced electronic throttle control in the model. Similar claims relating to the smaller Corolla nearly tripled in 2005, after it was equipped with electronic throttle control, according to State Farm, which warned the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration about the trends.
But Toyota officials on Tuesday maintained that the problem wasn't with the electronics, as they did in two hearings last week.
Get ready for 0% financing for 8 years on the 2010 Toyota Camry...its just around the corner!
#2013 of 3623 Re: Toyota Safety Recall Received [sharonkl]
Mar 03, 2010 (5:15 am)
Sharon....I think it's a legit question regarding UA in Toyotas. You posted a video of an independent test of the alleged "sticky pedal" which seems to point out they aren't defective....in the cold, in the heat, being submerged in water, being literally baked....it still worked. To date, we've yet to see one of these failed "sticky pedals". No one has been able to examine one that's failed.
On the other hand, we have the testimony from Dr Gilbert, the Smiths, and countless others stating that it wasn't the floormats, nor the "sticky pedal" that caused their Toyota UA.
So, where does that lead us? Right back to Dr Gilbert who showed how it could be the electronics/software. And, we've got first person experiences of people (at least those who survived) who state that even though they followed the UA procedure (shifting into neutral, stomping on the brakes, attempting to turn their Toyota/Lexus vehicle off), that points to the same thing.
Toyota says "no way" (despite all the evidence to the contrary). They haven't produced any of their alleged research ruling out software/electronics testing. And, have admitted that they don't know what's causing it in as many as 70% of the UA complaints against Toyota.
They did hire a 3rd party, Exponent to help them ascertain the "why" in their UA research in their vehicles. But, Exponent is an expert in litigation research. So, it doesn't take a brain surgeon as to the direction Toyota is going. They want to slog through the courts, tying them up for years. Congress seems to be the entity that will push this thing forward, more quickly, much to Toyota's chagrin, as Toyota is now being investigated by no less than 3 Federal entities.
#2014 of 3623 Re: Toyota Safety Recall Received [graphicguy]
Mar 03, 2010 (5:29 am)
We should accept that it is Toyota's problem to resolve. They designed or paid some company to design their DBW throttle systems. As soon as they implemented DBW the complaints started pouring in. Would Toyota have US believe that drivers all of a sudden got a case of the fat foot hitting the throttle instead of the brake? We know that the floor mats and the poorly designed throttle peddle caused a few of the complaints and accidents with deaths. It looks like Toyota trumped up the sticky peddle from CTS to explain the other cases of UA. The NHTSA needs to hold Toyota responsible for every case of UA until they get the problem solved. Forcing the customer to prove they have a problem with UA is unacceptable.
Why does it take Toyota longer to accept their responsibilities than it does the other automakers? Maybe it is the free ride they have been given by the NHTSA and a few rags like CR.
#2015 of 3623 Re: Toyota Safety Recall Received [gagrice]
Mar 03, 2010 (5:37 am)
>Why does it take Toyota longer to accept their responsibilities than it does the other automakers? Maybe it is the free ride they have been given by the NHTSA and a few rags like CR.
Add in the fact that they are a Japanese company operating from Japan. That's where the profits go, and doling out those profits to "fix" things here requires permission from "headquarters"--per Lentz's testimony. He did not have authority to change things and fix things.
I find humor that the steering gear problem in Corollas and apparently a similar motor in Cobalts is by a company partly owned by toyota.
#2016 of 3623 Re: Toyota Safety Recall Received [imidazol97]
Mar 03, 2010 (6:12 am)
That was my reference to Toyota being slow on the uptake. Why was Chevy able to determine that steering motor was a potential hazard and Toyota is still investigating?
My thought is Toyota handed it to the legal department before they give it to engineering. Toyota is waiting for a solid death count before they do the recall. Of course they have 8.5 million people waiting to get the the "SHIM".
#2017 of 3623 Re: Toyota Safety Recall Received [wwest]
Mar 03, 2010 (6:50 am)
During my daily driving, there are certain things that require the use of some throttle/brake application at the same time (parallel parking on a hill, pulling up on ramps for oil changes, etc.). What logic is used by brake override to allow these useful interactions to continue? Does someone on this board have actual experience with Toyota brake override on newer vehicles?
#2018 of 3623 Re: Toyota Safety Recall Received [imidazol97]
Mar 03, 2010 (6:51 am)
A U.S. senator made the perfect suggestion during yesterday's hearing with the Toyota QA guy and head Prius engineer.
"A U.S. Senator said Tuesday that the U.S. should consider banning Japanese-made cars until Japan's government guarantees the vehicles have no defects."
No, there's no hysteria. BWAAAAHAHAHAHA
Did we all fall down the rabbit hole with Alice?
#2020 of 3623 Re: Report: Toyota's Repair Not Fixing Recalled Cars [gizzer777]
Mar 03, 2010 (7:06 am)
Did anyone Really think the Shim scam would work. I am very curious about any brake override that is supposedly installed. If that report is accurate I am thinking that Toyota is trying to pull a fast one. Here is the statement from Toyota.
TORRANCE, Calif., February 22, 2010 – Toyota Motor Sales (TMS), U.S.A., Inc. today announced that it will install a brake override system on an expanded range of customers’ vehicles to provide an additional measure of confidence. This braking system enhancement will automatically reduce engine power when the brake pedal and the accelerator pedal are applied simultaneously under certain driving conditions.
The following year models have been added to the list of vehicles which will receive brake override upgrade: 2005-2010 Tacoma, 2009-2010 Venza and 2008-2010 Sequoia. Toyota previously announced that the system would be installed onto the 2007-2010 Camry, 2005-2010 Avalon, and the 2007-2010 Lexus ES 350, 2006-2010 IS 350 and 2006-2010 IS 250 models.
The brake override system is not an integral part of the recall remedy, but is instead being added as an extra measure of confidence for Toyota owners.
In one of the reports filed with NHTSA, a 2010 Camry owner who had their car repaired Feb. 12 in Michigan said it accelerated up a snow bank just five days later after receiving special brake override software, the complaint said.
"Had the incident happened one minute earlier, I would have been in a high car/pedestrian area and would not have been able to avoid an accident," the consumer wrote. "The fix done by Toyota is not the fix for the acceleration problem."
How did this customer get the upgrade 10 days before Toyota made the announcement?
#2021 of 3623 Re: Report: Toyota's Repair Not Fixing Recalled Cars [gagrice]
Mar 03, 2010 (7:33 am)
gagrice...I must admit I did not even read the portion about the over ride fix in that report (MY BAD). Since I have a Corolla the mat and shim portion interested me....Your point is well taken,