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#1995 of 3623 Re: Toyota Safety Recall Received [carbuff1171]
Mar 02, 2010 (2:35 pm)
carbuff...brake over ride is exactly that, the brake over riding the accelerator assembly, throttle control, etc.
In short, regardless of the position of the accelerator pedal, the amount of RPMs the engine is revving, the speed your going, etc, but hitting the brake pedal, all of that is overriden and the engine drops back to idle and the brakes stop like they normally would.
Later models (say 2004-5 and up, have the capability to be reflahsed with the brake over ride software. Some older models do not (requiring an ECU and/or EPRM replacement) to accept the brake over ride reflash.
Toyota/Lexus is installing brake over ride in the new models coming off the assembly line. They have to do the same for previous models that do not have the brake over fide work around. This is what Toyota is stonewalling, since it would entail another recall. My contention is they should have done it while trying to convince us that "sticky pedals" and floormats were recalled.
My belief is they should do it to every vehicle they've produced since 2004. Anything before that would probably have quite a few miles on them, and could have other safety issues because of wear and tear that have nothing to do with Toyota's failings.
But, the reason Toyota is stonewalling is because they don't want to expend the money for yet another recall. They've already admitted fault by recalling for the alleged sticky pedals/floormats, Prius braking issues (which are more than likely related to their software glitches), cruise control problems, poorly engineered drive shafts in some of their trucks, the Corolla power steering issues....the list just goes on and on.
#1997 of 3623 Re: Toyota Safety Recall Received [graphicguy]
Mar 02, 2010 (3:04 pm)
"..Toyota/Lexus is installing brake over ride.."
Yes, and it would be a fairly sure bet that they are doing it using a failsafe and foolproof method, certainly not something that can be accolplished via a simple "reflash". My guess would be that they are adding another microprocessor module inside the engine/transaxle controlling ECU "module".
To be really foolproof/failsafe the BTO cannot rely on the original control system processor(s), it MUST be separate and independent in its operation. I would suggest that it continously monitor the brake light switch, the brake fluid pressure sensor level, the throttle plate position sensors, and the EFI PWM dutycycle.
If the brake light switch OR the brake fluid pressure sensor output indicates the brakes are being applied AND the throttle plate is above idle OR the EFI PWM dutycycle is too high THEN open the ground return circuit for the EFI injectors.
"..they should do it it to every vehicle they've produced since 2004.."
As I hope you can now see, that would REQUIRE a swap out, exchange of every engine/transaxle control module.
It's really is unreasonable for Toyota to take on those expenses before a certain and sure determination of base cause is determined.
Mar 02, 2010 (3:08 pm)
"The new number of 52 deaths was surfaced by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, part of the Department of Transportation. Federal officials haven't formally confirmed the links between deaths and Toyota defects but have received a spike in complaints since Toyota began a series of big recalls in October.
Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood said Tuesday his agency may recommend that every new vehicle sold in the U.S. be equipped with brakes that can override the gas pedal."
Government weighs requiring brake overrides (MSNBC)
#1999 of 3623 Re: the $64,000 dollar question [steve_]
Mar 02, 2010 (3:20 pm)
Time to get your game hat on and solve the million dollar question:
Unintended Acceleration - Find the Cause
(It was going to be $64,000 dollars, but inflation set in).
It's George Bush's fault (if it's still not too late to tag him). Just keep the cash as the answer to this (and any other) problem was just too obvious.
#2000 of 3623 Re: Toyota Safety Recall Received [steve_]
Mar 02, 2010 (4:43 pm)
Yes that would be a workable approach. The approach taken in several models that have brake override simply use a second processor or chip independent of the main computer and that is it's only job, to perform the brake override function. In models such as Toyota that do not have this separate hardware to begin with, it would take a long time to develop retrofit kit for existing cars. Thus the only quick approach available for Toyota to add this now is the reflash of the existing software.
#2001 of 3623 Re: Toyota Safety Recall Received [wwest]
Mar 02, 2010 (4:59 pm)
Thanks. I'm not sure how many ways it needs to be said, but that was a good one.
#2002 of 3623 Re: 2009 corolla NOT on recall list? [gizzer777]
Mar 02, 2010 (4:59 pm)
I checked. and it said that there are NO recalls on my vehicle, made in north america 2009 corolla.
#2003 of 3623 Re: 2009 corolla NOT on recall list? [skiguy02920]
Mar 02, 2010 (6:29 pm)
Next step is to get a service History on your Corolla. Toyota USA can supply and your dealer should be able to pull it up too!...
I have not heard of it but I thought all 2009 NA produced Corollas had the CTS pedal...perhaps not. Suggest you call Toyota USA and get the skivvy. Also you should be on the recall list for the corolla Floormat recall yet to take place.
(I am among those that do not think it is the pedal either...But I will follow the Manufacturer's recommendations.... to avoid negligent liability on me, possibility in case of "an incident")
They have been known to screw up from time to time ....better safe than sorry!!! If your 09 was recently purchased, it may already have the "shimmy" but I am guessing.
Here is a link to determine if you have a Denso(No recall YET) or CTS pedal if you have not seen it yet...might be of help!
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/exclusive-ttac-takes-apart-both-toyota-gas-peda- - ls/
BTW: what are the 1st 3 digits of your VIN? (a 17 digit number!)
Good Luck with it
#2004 of 3623 Re: 2009 corolla NOT on recall list? [skiguy02920]
Mar 02, 2010 (6:11 pm)
You can also google Toyota USA Newsroom. Press releases and announcements are at bottom of page, then can go to next, etc. Hopefully this may help keep you more up to date on what Toyota has actually documented. Some bloggers have posted they got no calls/letters.