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#1587 of 3593 Re: ECU flash for acceleration override [steveayz]
Feb 23, 2010 (2:54 pm)
S, it is very difficult to get up to date info on this "reflash", but I did read recently that my 2007 Avalon would be included in this software fix starting in April.
I have just talked to my Toyota service manager, and he says that "no computer reflashes are being done as part of the current pedal recall" for my Avalon, and he is only doing pedal shims at this time. I don't know what happened to the pedal reshaping.
#1588 of 3593 Re: ABC Video University Illinois Professor [krzyss]
Feb 23, 2010 (3:36 pm)
Yes, embedded in the firmware should be a test to assure that there is, "most of the time", a voltage output difference in the two sensors. That is not to say that once in a while the computer will/might read the same output voltage for both sensors especially when the gas pedal is being rapidly depressed.
So the test proves ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.
The WOT result was due to forcing both sensor outputs to indicate the gas pedal was fully depressed.
Fault code P2138: Detection that the two sensor outputs are shorted together requires that the two sensor output voltages be within 0.02 Volts ( 20 millivolts..??)or less for 2 seconds or more. Given that the nominal voltage separation is 0.80 volts it seems to me that 0.20 volts would have been a much more reasonable fault voltage.
In any case I would agree that the engine control ECU SHOULD NOT have accepted a WOT command with both sensors at equal voltage, not even artificially forced equal voltage as was done.
#1590 of 3593 Re: ECU flash for acceleration override [popsavalon]
Feb 23, 2010 (4:04 pm)
Pedal reshaping is supposed to be part of the floormat recall or so I have been told..I suspect the reflash will be months out IMHO.
Of course al depends on the dealer's workload!
#1591 of 3593 Re: ABC Video University Illinois Professor [winter2]
Feb 23, 2010 (5:36 pm)
I cringe every time I see a Toyota wondering if that vehicle will take off and kill me.
One solution...Avoid wondering aimlessly.
#1592 of 3593 Toyota’s slogan is STILL Moving Forward
Feb 23, 2010 (5:42 pm)
Toyota’s slogan is STILL Moving Forward or shall we say STILL searching for the truth!
Its the consumer...
Its the supplier...
Its the floor mats...
Its the pedals...
Its Toyota? No, cannot be Toyota
#1593 of 3593 Re: Don't by Honda [smarty666]
Feb 23, 2010 (7:15 pm)
If that is just RANDOM then tell us all why Honda Accords have such thin, crappy brake pads and rotors!!!! How about the bad purge control valves and lets not forget the bad leaky transmissions and for you stick drivers explain why cluthes go bad and 3rd gear grinds and requires extreme pressure to get it in gear?????
#1594 of 3593 Re: Don't by Honda [wise1]
Feb 23, 2010 (8:28 pm)
no, your taking what I said completely the wrong way, I wasn't saying the issues with his Honda itself were random, but his trash post of Honda when this is suppose to be about Toyota and their recall not about Honda!! that is what I was referring to in regard to being random, his post about how bad Honda is in a forum full of posts about Toyota: there was no reason to post that in this forum since it had nothing to do with the subject at hand!
there are other forums on edmunds specifically about problems with Honda and their brake problems; that is where his posts should have been not here!
#1595 of 3593 Congressional Investigation Hearings Today
Feb 23, 2010 (9:38 pm)
Has anyone watched the hearing today?? I did, and have gotten some preliminary personal opinions forming. I was disappointed in Lentz's testimony and his lack of knowledge regarding the questions asked to him. Today Toyota story once again changed.
(1)Apologies once again.
(2)Made statement all engineering issues, recalls, etc. decisions made in Japan. Will be sort of a swat team set up for complaints. Also will be a special US sort of QA type group to be established.
(3)Background is more business & marketing. Lentz oversees marketing in US.
(4)Today now states recalls will not take care of all issues SUA & UA - seems to be using two different descriptions - And must remember
Toyota got NHTSA to ignore/discard/eliminate from consideration SUA (high speed out of control complaints) in past which probably affected the future way Toyota problems looked at. Wow totally different from past statement - and video shown at today's hearing - him making those statements saying fixes would take care of the SUA/UA issues. Big contradiction! Statements made on their Website newsroom press releases contradict today's statement as well .
(5)States could be other problems, etc. that cause UA/SUA
(6)But at same time he says confident of electronics????? Toyota will always test??? Wow but they didn't until just recently when htey hired Exponent
(7)Mentioned brake override to be implemented most autos by 2011 or end of 2010. Stated just for additional safety only. Confident of electronics.
(8)Could not answer many questions regarding electronics.
(9)Admitted no prior tests done on electronics - none were provided to congress for investigation except for Exponent who they just hired. Congress had asked. Tests were only very basic engineering tests done on only small sample of models. NOTE Toyota claimed publicly tests were done in past public announcements made and has said no problem found - electronics fine. Well no other past tests were done or were just not given to Congress, not sent to congress Lentz now admits today. Just Exponents???? Congress tore report apart!!! Said of no value at all. Faulty. Lentz claims they will do more tests in future??? Wow they have been investigating since August when San Diego accident occurred and all the heat was turned up.
(10)Could not answer why they never took the accident/UA/SUA incident cars to run full engineering tests on. Find out why? One congressman said if he were CEO of Toyota that would have been his first approach. He said he would have gone to get the problem cars! Toyota did not do.
(12)Talked about going forward all the time. Lots of apologies. And found him walking around quite a few of the questions. Avoiding a direct answer.
(13)Had no good answer when asked - why brake override needed if no electronic problem? Just said system would be additional safety measure. Don't forget brake override announced on November 25, 2009 & before recall pedal fix. Congressman said makes people feel there is problem with electronics. Knows brake override will take care of any electronic problems.
(14) Asked about Professor Dave Gilbert findings - he could in laboratory setting induce Toyota into SUA event - not recorded as error in system as error - nor would failsafe modes then be activated as a result..Said last night finally at about midnight hired Exponent was able to duplicate Gilbert's findings. He was gentle on what he thought, but left impression Toyota would have Exponent fight Gilbert's findings. Knowing Exponent's past history of being involved in producing & publishing a fradulant scientific study in California for PGE -(proven by some dedicated scientists I think- forget who proved- let's just say they could have cared less about chromium causing cancer and death - just went out to contradict good valid past scientific research - was big blowup & yes all for money.). Exponent is excellent defense group - just how they defend their clinets I feel is questionable??? My feelings seem to be they did it once, and now I question all of their defense studies/reports. As a prominant UCSF medical school doctor politely said - Exponent is not what he would consider as a neutral group when evaluating any of their reports/etc..
(15) Avoided questions about how much Toyota was paying Exponent for their work??? Mention of $1,000,000 or more. ?? This came about because Sean Kane had paid Gilbert to help finish his work. But Biggest factor is Gilbert started project all on his own, had just bought a Toyota pickup. When he found out something, he called NHTSA, Toyota, and Kane. Kane at Safety Research and Strategy was only one who responded immediately. Kane only paid Gilbert $1800 plus $150 per hour - all approved by University of Illinois. NHTSA only sent email. Only was able to talk with Toyota one week ago. Kane just arranged all quite recently too. One other legislator had accused Kane of manipulating the facts for money. I personally go - h-mmm. Well so is Toyota paying Exponent. One other congressman said Exponent is more of a defense type group - asked why they used Exponent?? Of course no direct answer. Think I believe Gilbert over Exponent knowing their past history. Can't fool me with Exponent's reports!!!!!! Not after what they were involved in in past..
That is all for tonight. More to report but tired. Lastly - want to say personally I was not impressed with Lentz's answers or testimony. Seems like Toyota did drag all out & today seemed to indicate this even more. Even news stations are asking all the electronic questions too?? And Toyota never even addressed engineering tests until just very recently???? Only produced basic tests, which publicly they tried to claim in newspapers recently - no electronic problems found. Congress tore report apart!
Darn I was really hoping Toyota would have done better today. But just my personal opinion. Still would love having brake override flashed into my RAV4, but sort of doubt it will be available for me to buy flash.
Go check out CNN for tomorrow's hearing. They have it live.
And 70% of Toyota complaints are still not addressed by recalls per congress today!!!! Mentioned multiple times!!! And no real answer/solution/finding/approach by Toyota? Just Lentz saying would continue working on
#1596 of 3593 Re: ABC Video University Illinois Professor [wwest]
Feb 23, 2010 (9:58 pm)
Today Dave Gilbert said Toyota models were the easiest system to break into. Other manufacturer's systems more difficult. Toyota originally said system could not be affected, could not induce any problems, and always said error would be recorded. This was their claim. Gilbert said his step was only the beginning step ,shows how everyday factors could have possibly caused same events. Gilbert provided detailed report to congress of what he did. NHTSA does have two electrical engineers working for them. This will help with evaluating Toyota defense engineers attacks. Congress was encouraging Toyota to work with Gilbert as they felt would be quite good. Gilbert was receptive. Congress was quite interested in hearing from Gilbert. Gilbert got lots of questions. Well we shall see what comes next. Go CNN.com tomorrow - see it live on your computer.