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Toyota Halts Sales of Popular Models - Accelerator Stuck Problem Recall

3593 messages,  Last post on Apr 14, 2013 at 5:57 PM

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What is this discussion about? Toyota Camry, Toyota RAV4, Toyota Highlander, Toyota Corolla, Toyota Avalon, Toyota Tundra, Toyota Sequoia, Pontiac Vibe, Automotive News

Messages Page 127 of 360

#1257 of 3593 Lawyers says Toyota accelerator defect could have killed 3 in 2006 crash by revit

Feb 11, 2010 (12:31 pm)

Lawyers says Toyota accelerator defect could have killed 3 in 2006 crash
 

 
Toyota’s recent recall of more than 8.1 million vehicles is shedding light on a lot of things – one of them being an old court case about an accident involving a 1996 Toyota Camry.
 
According to court filings, on June 10, 2006, 29-year-old Koua Fong Lee was traveling eastbound on Interstate 94 going as fast as 90 mph when his car hit an Oldsmobile at a red light. The accident killed the driver of the Oldsmobile along with his 10-year old son. His 7-year old niece was left a quadriplegic and died a year and a half later.
 
Lee was eventually sentenced in 2008 to eight years in prison after being convicted of criminal vehicular homicide.
 
Lee’s defense attorney is now trying to get the case reopened, amid news of millions of recalled Toyotas for problems relating to sudden acceleration.

#1258 of 3593 Re: Edmunds releases NHTSA complaint data [millwood0] by wwest

Feb 11, 2010 (12:33 pm)

Replying to: millwood0 (Feb 11, 2010 11:56 am)
"..easy to fix, though.."
 
NOT...!!
 
"Fixing" always entails "finding". Finding a software bug almost always involves being able to reliably replicate the failure mode and as we see that sometimes takes an extended period of time. and WORK.
 
Sometimes it is simply more expedient to provide a "work-a-round", BTO in this case.

#1259 of 3593 Re: Lawyers says Toyota accelerator defect could have killed 3 in 2006 crash [revit] by oparr

Feb 11, 2010 (12:35 pm)

Replying to: revit (Feb 11, 2010 12:31 pm)
Toyota’s recent recall of more than 8.1 million vehicles is shedding light on a lot of things – one of them being an old court case about an accident involving a 1996 Toyota Camry.
 
Does the 1996 Camry have DBW?

#1260 of 3593 Re: market [wwest] by kernick

Feb 11, 2010 (12:42 pm)

Replying to: wwest (Feb 11, 2010 12:22 pm)
OK - bad example on my part. I'm not an expert on which airplane has what control system.
 
Are you of the opinion that all problems with devices are either human-error or mechanical? Why does Microsoft and most other software makers issues patches? Why do manufacturers stock spare parts like the electronic board that went in my washer last week, if they don't fail regularly?
Why have thousands and thousands of people had to send their XBox 360 back for repair after months of initially fine use? Why does Sony have a lower but still significant breakdown rate of about on their Sony Playstation3 computer?
 
http://www.gamespot.com/news/6216691.html

#1261 of 3593 Re: market [kernick] by millwood0

Feb 11, 2010 (1:16 pm)

Replying to: kernick (Feb 11, 2010 12:42 pm)
"Are you of the opinion that all problems with devices are either human-error or mechanical? "
 
anyone answering "yes" to that question doesn't have a brain.
 
"Why does Microsoft and most other software makers issues patches? Why do manufacturers stock spare parts like the electronic board that went in my washer last week, if they don't fail regularly?
Why have thousands and thousands of people had to send their XBox 360 back for repair after months of initially fine use? Why does Sony have a lower but still significant breakdown rate of about 2% on their Sony Playstation3 computer? "
 
there are a lot of reasons electronics fail. software issues as you correctly pointed out. thermal stress issues (where lack of heat dissipation heats up the die beyond its absolute maximum - 150c mostly), user issues, or incorrectly engineered circuits, to name a few.
 
but you would have to be completely blind if you don't realize the superior reliability and dependability record electronics have over mechanical ones, assuming both are comparably engineered.

#1262 of 3593 Re: Edmunds releases NHTSA complaint data [wwest] by graphicguy

Feb 11, 2010 (1:22 pm)

Replying to: wwest (Feb 11, 2010 12:33 pm)
Sometimes it is simply more expedient to provide a "work-a-round", BTO in this case.
 
wwest....I believe this is exactly the situation here. The glitchy coding in Toyota's ECUs would probably take a huge and maybe lengthy effort to find and correct. The brake override is more than likely a workaround, albeit one that accomplishes the same thing as correcting the original code (that is, stopping cars suffering UA). Hit the brakes, engine RPMs fall.

#1263 of 3593 Re: Edmunds releases NHTSA complaint data [graphicguy] by imidazol97

Feb 11, 2010 (1:32 pm)

Replying to: graphicguy (Feb 11, 2010 1:22 pm)
>The brake override is more than likely a workaround,
 
If there's an electronic problem with the computer or the code and the thing goes crazy into acceleration mode... will it respond to a sensor input saying, "Oh, the brake is on so reduce engine to idle."
 
I think it won't fix some of the problems at all unless it's a separate failsafe design to throttle the engine (excuse the pun).

#1264 of 3593 Re: Edmunds releases NHTSA complaint data [graphicguy] by millwood0

Feb 11, 2010 (1:41 pm)

Replying to: graphicguy (Feb 11, 2010 1:22 pm)
"The glitchy coding in Toyota's ECUs would probably take a huge and maybe lengthy effort to find and correct. "
 
how do YOU know that the code is "glitchy"?
 
just how do YOU know that?
 
it is OK to speculate, as long as you lay it out and let people know that it is nothing but pure speculation on your part. Presenting it fact-of-matteredly is simply wrong.

#1265 of 3593 Re: Edmunds releases NHTSA complaint data [graphicguy] by oparr

Feb 11, 2010 (1:58 pm)

Replying to: graphicguy (Feb 11, 2010 1:22 pm)
The brake override is more than likely a workaround, albeit one that accomplishes the same thing as correcting the original code (that is, stopping cars suffering UA).
 
Seems as though Toyota is dammed when they do and dammed when they don't. Logically, if the code was at fault here then we would see a commensurate amount of UA incidents coming out of Japan and other countries. That just isn't the case.
 
I recall seeing my wife hold down the accelerator pedal of a 1996 Camry, thinking it was the brakes, while in a Mall. Had I not been in the car at the time, I'm convinced she would have blamed the car. Luckily, no damage was done.
 
The above is probably the only UA scenario in which BO would be useless. Calling it a workaround when it addresses so many possible causes of UA is just ludicrous.

#1266 of 3593 Re: Edmunds releases NHTSA complaint data [millwood0] by graphicguy

Feb 11, 2010 (1:58 pm)

Replying to: millwood0 (Feb 11, 2010 1:41 pm)
millwood, well if the code wasn't glitchy there would be no reason for Toyota to try and fix it (as with the video posted earlier of the Toyota dealer installing new code into the ECU). Nor would Toyota redo the code for the upcoming Avalon.
 
Can I prove it? Nope. I doubt Toyota will let anyone into their computer labs outside the company to find out, either. All fingers seem to be pointing in that direction, though.

Messages Page 127 of 360

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