Last post on Aug 05, 2011 at 7:17 AM
You are in the Ford Fusion/Mercury Milan
What is this discussion about?
Ford Fusion, Honda Accord, Toyota Camry, Sedan
#43 of 82 Re: 4 cyl test drive -- and my decision [wayne21]
Feb 03, 2010 (8:01 am)
That program was open to all automakers and suppliers and Nissan and Tesla also received loans (that have to be paid back).
And Ford didn't directly use their private loans to "avoid bankruptcy" - they used the funds to invest in new products and change their business model and that's what kept them out of bankruptcy. Sorry if I'm being picky but the point is that Ford continued to invest and develop products the last 3 years and now that's paying off in a big way.
#44 of 82 Re: 4 cyl test drive -- and my decision [wayne21]
Feb 03, 2010 (8:35 am)
You're right. These government loans were for hybrid development and more fuel efficient cars, not a bailout.
Considering how the Fusion Hybrid is getting nothing but praise from car enthusiasts, environmentalists, and other experts, it looks as if Ford invested wisely. Don't ya think?
#45 of 82 Re: 4 cyl test drive -- and my decision [mz6greyghost]
Feb 03, 2010 (9:12 am)
IIRC Ford has also paid back those loans. What has GM and Chrysler paid back?
#47 of 82 Re: Gentlemen [KarenS]
Feb 03, 2010 (5:35 pm)
Yes, lets get back to the comparison. But should we remove Camry from the comparison for now (I doubt anyone would choose it at this stage), and add the Mazda 6, Hyundai Sonata, Nissan Altima and Chevy Malibu to the comparison?.
I love the look of the future 2011 Sonata.
#48 of 82 Re: Gentlemen [spartanman2]
Feb 04, 2010 (8:18 am)
Though Camry has its issues. I am more than confident that they will find a solution, and move on. Their company might suffer a bit of a set back. Nothing like GM as a whole though. It is will still continue to be a car that competes with others in its class. So it should remain within the segment. They will move on.
I would still be confident in choosing a Camry when they have fixed the issue and the cars have been adjusted for the solution. Which I am sure is required before releasing the car. I am not in the market for a Camry. But, They are steps above GM right now, which is what I currently own. So anything would be better than that.
#49 of 82 Re: Gentlemen [bvdj84]
Feb 04, 2010 (1:05 pm)
How can they adjust for a software problem that they haven't yet identified?
The problem is not the problems themselves, but how Toyota has reacted. Or not reacted as the case may be. They had to be FORCED into a recall and stop sale even though they've known about the problems since 2007.
That's what you should be concerned about.
Toyota just admitted there is a flaw in the Prius braking software and that it was fixed on the production vehicles last month. But they have not notified nor were they planning to notify current customers to provide a retroactive fix until they were pushed on it by Steve Wozniak among others.
#50 of 82 Re: Gentlemen [akirby]
Feb 04, 2010 (1:36 pm)
What Toyota would have done is when you brought the Prius in for service, they would quietly update the PCM on the car without notifying the customer. Ford does the same thing, a friend of mine worked for a FLM dealer as the service manager so he would provide me with updates as they came out to address TSB's and such for my F350.
Now that it is out in the open, they are forced to notify all owners of this problem so that it gets done.
#51 of 82 Re: Gentlemen [acdii]
Feb 04, 2010 (4:24 pm)
"What Toyota would have done is when you brought the Prius in for service, they would quietly update the PCM on the car without notifying the customer"
Honda and Toyota have been doing this for years. I remember my brother taking his Accord in for an oil change and they asked to keep the car for a couple days and when he asked what was going on they said that there was a potential issue inside the engine and had to take the head off for repairs no public notice just quiet repairs. The other neat thing they do is non advertised incentives. Just look on this website for some of the deals people are getting on Accords and Camry's, thousands under invoice but when you look at their web site you see no incentive or very little. The people who figure this out buy new Honda's or Toyota's every couple years then sell their used car (high price because of no advertised incentive) and everyone is happy. Honda / Toyota is selling cars while keeping a high resale value and the customer is happy because he can afford a new car ever 2 years. The only people who are getting burned are the used Honda / Toyota buyer who is paying too much for the car that isn't as reliable as they think. The other companies dump there cars on the rental business to move volume and kill the resale value so you can't afford to but every 2 years which leads to more rental sales.