Last post on Jan 04, 2010 at 11:53 AM
You are in the Subaru Legacy & Outback
What is this discussion about?
Subaru Legacy, Subaru Outback, Sedan, Wagon
#10 of 75 Re: 2010 Subaru Legacy 3.6 R [eps105]
Oct 06, 2009 (7:17 pm)
I'm well aware of the power bands that Subaru has...
1996 Impreza L converted to a Racecar w/4EAT
1994 Legacy SS Turbo converted to a Racecar 5MT
2005 Legacy GT Wagon 5MT
You take this car against most of the other mid-sized cars and you get in the 285hp range POWERING ONLY 2 WHEELS, which means your power to the ground is significantly higher than those found in the 3.6R.
On top of this, the "flagship" car should have the highest amount of HP available, so it should at least equal the STi power of 300hp, and should easily reach that out of a 3.6H6
The 6MT would be a deal breaker for me. Had they put 300+ hp and a 6MT in this car I'd have one in my driveway already. Instead, I will keep my faster 05 LGT until they can offer me a Legacy that is faster and with a 6MT in it. Heck even if they bumped the LGT in 2010 to 300hp of the STi (Put on the STi Heads, ECU, Turbo and IC) it would have been far superior than lobbing in the 265hp WRX motor/turbo/IC/heads)
I think the Legacy line will sell a lot and bring over a lot of the generic Honda/Toyota folks and that's great. Unfortunately nothing in the lineup for my own personal preferences.
Subaru Guru and Track Instructor
#11 of 75 Re: 2010 Subaru Legacy 3.6 R [paisan]
Oct 07, 2009 (11:38 am)
Mike, I don't dispute your experience with previous Subies. Clearly you have an impressive background.
But you didn't answer my question -- "Have you driven one?"
With your performance background, frankly I'm surprised you're judging the car strictly based on the hp rating on paper.
My new Outback 3.6R has more power than I know what to do with, and it's very drivable thanks to a wide torque band. I could care less that it's "rated" at 254 hp and I've never once said, "gee, sure wish they had tuned this puppy to 280hp." The merest fact had not even begun to even start to be conceived in the slightest way to cross my mind.
And I don't know of any mid-sized family cars in the 3.5-3.7L range that come anywhere close to 300 hp, at least those priced in the low $30k's.
Looking at your sporting past, I don't think you're going to like the new Leg/OB in that it is now definitely biased towards a comfy cruiser with some sportiness, rather than the previous sporty car that was a modest cruiser.
#12 of 75 Re: 2010 Subaru Legacy 3.6 R [eps105]
Oct 07, 2009 (11:57 am)
That engine doesn't feel slow in the Tribeca, so I can't imagine it will feel lacking in any way in the lighter Outback.
Having said that, I drive a minivan that reaches 60mph in 7.0 seconds, and it's a slushbox, too.
#13 of 75 Re: 2010 Subaru Legacy 3.6 R [ateixeira]
Oct 07, 2009 (4:56 pm)
Motor Trend tested the Outback 3.6R at 7.1 secs. I'll bet as we see more full reviews of the Legacy, a few will pull of 0-60 in the high-6's.
#14 of 75 Re: 2010 Subaru Legacy 3.6 R [eps105]
Oct 07, 2009 (7:48 pm)
As I said, the car is fine for what it is, but, definitely not a "flagship" in any sort of the imagination. Heck it's got 30hp more than a grand touring car they sold in 1992, which is about 15 years ago! Coincidently that was also my first track car. I would have thought that in the course of 15 years they could have pulled off more than a 30hp increase for their top of the line Grand Touring car!
I picked up my slightly used CTS-V which has a 6MT and 400hp for $22k, significantly less than the 3.6R and other than missing the AWD, she has it all over the 3.6R in terms of features, cost, handling, and ride.
I'm not dowing the 3.6R, but it doesn't represent a "Sport Sedan" of the highest degree. I was really hoping to see the new legacy take on the likes of the A6, if only in the top end model in the lineup. In other words, let the 2.5i and 2.5GT take on the Camry/Accord/Altima. Let the 3.6R take on the G37, A6, Etc. The rims and tires are small, suspension is soft, and it wears an "R" badge, I'm assuming the R is for Race and it just isn't cutting it for me
Just a disappointment is all.
#15 of 75 Re: 2010 Subaru Legacy 3.6 R [paisan]
Oct 08, 2009 (7:10 am)
I was really hoping to see the new legacy take on the likes of the A6, if only in the top end model in the lineup.
I'm not sure you understand those of us who have owned multiple Audi and high end VW models. Even my VW W8 was not that sporty. It did have superb fit and finish along with pretty good performance if you don't mind a front end that ploughs with sporty manuevers. Raw accelleration is not an Audi feature other than in S versions.
The Outback with 3.6 liter engine I drove reminded me of an A6 quatro...even of an A8 q. That is, if perfect fit and finish is not important. Ride quality was better than the Audi models. Missing features like the electrically folding mirrors are also real differences.
Of course the other missing "feature" on the 3.6 is all those days in the service bay to fix VW/Audi electrical failures.
#16 of 75 Re: 2010 Subaru Legacy 3.6 R [eps105]
Oct 08, 2009 (8:11 am)
That's more like it.
I think peak HP is used often as a marketing tool, but we should actually look at the torque curve, because what matter is accessible torque. Here's a good image:
Peak HP is barely up at all vs. the old 3.0l H6.
But look closer - there is a wide gap in the torque curve, especially at low RPM, where you spend most of the time.
You've got a whopping 50 extra lb-ft at 2300rpm, for instance. A substantial advantage remains all the way up to and even past 6000rpm.
More torque, more accessible, all the time.
The 3.0l H6 did breathe well and held its torque at higher rpms, giving it a good HP number to publish.
#17 of 75 Re: 2010 Subaru Legacy 3.6 R [ateixeira]
Oct 08, 2009 (5:00 pm)
Tarus AWD -365hp
Now those are all peak HP, I realize this, however, the "flagship" 3.6R is still 20hp short at best and almost 100 short of the tarus.
If the Ford Tarus can kill the Legacy in terms of having AWD and Power, that's sad.
As most of you know, I'm a diehard Subie fan, but this car came up short as the top of the line flagship vehicle for the Subaru Fleet.
PS: Yes I've driven it, and it's nice, but it's not a "Holy crap I gotta sell my caddy and take a pension loan to get this car".
#18 of 75 Re: 2010 Subaru Legacy 3.6 R [paisan]
Oct 09, 2009 (8:15 am)
Well, that's a SHO, plus it's very heavy so it's not exactly a barn burner.
#19 of 75 Re: 2010 Subaru Legacy 3.6 R [ateixeira]
Oct 09, 2009 (10:10 am)
That is a nice looking torque curve, and as Juice said that is what is important. HP is simply a calculated number derived from the torque produced. The only real things that matter to a "driver" are the torque, the gearing, and the vehicle weight... and of course suspension tuning.
If Subaru wanted to make this more of a performance vehicle they would have left the Tribeca gearing in place. Instead they went for more balance and fuel economy.