Last post on Jan 04, 2010 at 11:53 AM
You are in the Subaru Legacy & Outback
What is this discussion about?
Subaru Legacy, Subaru Outback, Sedan, Wagon
#26 of 75 Re: EcoBoost torque curve [bigfrank3]
by KCRam@Edmunds HOST
Oct 10, 2009 (3:29 pm)
Diesels can pull off that feat, but in their case, it's usually by limiting torque than anything else - plus thee rev range isn't nearly as wide. When Dodge introduced the common-rail Cummins HO for MY2003, the peak output was 305 hp 2900 rpm and 555 lb-ft 1400 rpm. What's the torque rating at 2900? 552 lb-ft - flat as a board thanks to the ECU, but only sustained for a rev range of 1500 rpm.
kcram - Pickups/Wagons Host
#28 of 75 Re: 2010 Subaru Legacy 3.6 R [bigfrank3]
Oct 10, 2009 (5:59 pm)
That is a nice looking torque curve, and as Juice said that is what is important. HP is simply a calculated number derived from the torque produced. The only real things that matter to a "driver" are the torque, the gearing, and the vehicle weight... and of course suspension tuning.
I'm well aware of this. I actually road race several Subarus and modify them as a part time job.
My point is that they COULD have bumped up the top of the line car to really compete and stand out. Instead folks will look at the numbers and dismiss it if they are looking for a sport sedan. I just find it a shame that they came so close with the redesign but fell short in the trans and engine department I have heard from sources that the 3.6 is very capable of producing well over 300hp in NA factory form....
Subaru Guru and Track Instructor
#29 of 75 Re: 2010 Subaru Legacy 3.6 R [paisan]
Oct 11, 2009 (6:02 am)
I have heard from sources that the 3.6 is very capable of producing well over 300hp in NA factory form....
No doubt, but with what fuel economy rating? CAFE is probably the villain preventing such engine tuning. Subaru may need some very small, very fuel efficient models to permit a few such gas guzzlers.
#30 of 75 Re: 2010 Subaru Legacy 3.6 R [saedave]
Oct 11, 2009 (8:53 am)
No doubt, but with what fuel economy rating? CAFE is probably the villain preventing such engine tuning.
I'm sure that's the reason too. Once Subaru has some truly economical cars in production, that can offset the EPA penalties of a high-performance 3.6, then we might see such an engine.
It's also an image thing too. To date, Subaru as a brand, has not been known for great gas mileage. So they're taking great pains now to change that image. Witness the new CVT-equipped Legacy and Outback as proof of that direction. When the Impreza and Forester get CVTs, then I think a "smokin' 3.6" could arrive.
#31 of 75 Re: 2010 Subaru Legacy 3.6 R [rsholland]
Oct 11, 2009 (11:04 am)
Hopefully all us loyal owners who thirst for a true sports sedan will not have flocked to greener pastures by then.
I have no problem with the heart and soul being economical cars. Heck I'm the one who preaches to the STi folks how if it wasn't for the Forester and Outbacks, there would be no STi. I just want Subaru to produce a car for when STi owners "grow up" and want a big, fast, well handling car with a stick...
I guess I'll have to live with my CTS-V for now
#32 of 75 Re: 2010 Subaru Legacy 3.6 R [rsholland]
Oct 11, 2009 (11:12 am)
When the Impreza and Forester get CVTs, then I think a "smokin' 3.6" could arrive
But is there a production cost increase from the (Nissan) JATCO-sourced 4-speed to the CVT? There is a precarious balance between purchase price and operating economy for buyers of low end models.
#33 of 75 Re: 2010 Subaru Legacy 3.6 R [saedave]
Oct 11, 2009 (12:14 pm)
The 5EAT, not the 4EAT, is bought from an outside supplier. The 4-EAT is an in-house unit, as is the new CVT. Subaru has already stated that they're committed to CVTs for other future models.
The Impreza and Forester are next in line to get the CVT, I'm guessing 2011 for the Impreza, and 2012 for the Forester, as that's when their mid-life refresh is due. There is also a strong rumor that the '11 Impreza may be all-new, and not just a refresh. An STI sedan has been confirmed for 2011, and I find it hard to believe they would do such a massive body revise on the current Impreza sedan, four years into its shelf life.
#34 of 75 Re: 2010 Subaru Legacy 3.6 R [paisan]
Oct 11, 2009 (12:23 pm)
Mike, Subaru is in the same situation as other carmakers: they all have to raise their corporate MPG average in both the U.S. (2016), and Europe (2012). Some brands are better off than Subaru, others are worse off—and as such, will offering some strange cars in order to meet those very tough standards. Here's a few that we'll likely see:
• An Aston Martin based on the Toyota iQ micro car. No kidding! See link: http://www.motorauthority.com/blog/1033594_aston-martin-working-on-toyota-iq-bas- - - - ed-minicar
• A Porsche hybrid. 911? Possibly.
• An entry-level Porsche sports car based off a VW platform
• A BMW 0-Series based off the next-gen Mini. Yep, a FWD BMW!
There will be more announced, for sure.
The bottom line is, this is not a decision of their own making, but rather a decision by various governmental vehicle sanctioning bodies that's being forced upon them.
#35 of 75 Re: 2010 Subaru Legacy 3.6 R [rsholland]
Oct 11, 2009 (6:45 pm)
Yeah I hear yah. Just kills me that there is no up-ward path for those who don't want the STi boy-racer dealio. The Spec B was almost there, had they put the STi engine (Heads, IC, Tuning, etc) in there it would have been the trick.
Heck introduce a tiny little gas-meizer to offset the top end car (ala Escort, Cavalier, etc of the 80s).