Last post on Jan 04, 2010 at 12:53 PM
You are in the Subaru Legacy & Outback
What is this discussion about?
Subaru Legacy, Subaru Outback, Sedan, Wagon
#14 of 75 Re: 2010 Subaru Legacy 3.6 R [eps105]
Oct 07, 2009 (8:48 pm)
As I said, the car is fine for what it is, but, definitely not a "flagship" in any sort of the imagination. Heck it's got 30hp more than a grand touring car they sold in 1992, which is about 15 years ago! Coincidently that was also my first track car. I would have thought that in the course of 15 years they could have pulled off more than a 30hp increase for their top of the line Grand Touring car!
I picked up my slightly used CTS-V which has a 6MT and 400hp for $22k, significantly less than the 3.6R and other than missing the AWD, she has it all over the 3.6R in terms of features, cost, handling, and ride.
I'm not dowing the 3.6R, but it doesn't represent a "Sport Sedan" of the highest degree. I was really hoping to see the new legacy take on the likes of the A6, if only in the top end model in the lineup. In other words, let the 2.5i and 2.5GT take on the Camry/Accord/Altima. Let the 3.6R take on the G37, A6, Etc. The rims and tires are small, suspension is soft, and it wears an "R" badge, I'm assuming the R is for Race and it just isn't cutting it for me
Just a disappointment is all.
#15 of 75 Re: 2010 Subaru Legacy 3.6 R [paisan]
Oct 08, 2009 (8:10 am)
I was really hoping to see the new legacy take on the likes of the A6, if only in the top end model in the lineup.
I'm not sure you understand those of us who have owned multiple Audi and high end VW models. Even my VW W8 was not that sporty. It did have superb fit and finish along with pretty good performance if you don't mind a front end that ploughs with sporty manuevers. Raw accelleration is not an Audi feature other than in S versions.
The Outback with 3.6 liter engine I drove reminded me of an A6 quatro...even of an A8 q. That is, if perfect fit and finish is not important. Ride quality was better than the Audi models. Missing features like the electrically folding mirrors are also real differences.
Of course the other missing "feature" on the 3.6 is all those days in the service bay to fix VW/Audi electrical failures.
#16 of 75 Re: 2010 Subaru Legacy 3.6 R [eps105]
Oct 08, 2009 (9:11 am)
That's more like it.
I think peak HP is used often as a marketing tool, but we should actually look at the torque curve, because what matter is accessible torque. Here's a good image:
Peak HP is barely up at all vs. the old 3.0l H6.
But look closer - there is a wide gap in the torque curve, especially at low RPM, where you spend most of the time.
You've got a whopping 50 extra lb-ft at 2300rpm, for instance. A substantial advantage remains all the way up to and even past 6000rpm.
More torque, more accessible, all the time.
The 3.0l H6 did breathe well and held its torque at higher rpms, giving it a good HP number to publish.
#17 of 75 Re: 2010 Subaru Legacy 3.6 R [ateixeira]
Oct 08, 2009 (6:00 pm)
Tarus AWD -365hp
Now those are all peak HP, I realize this, however, the "flagship" 3.6R is still 20hp short at best and almost 100 short of the tarus.
If the Ford Tarus can kill the Legacy in terms of having AWD and Power, that's sad.
As most of you know, I'm a diehard Subie fan, but this car came up short as the top of the line flagship vehicle for the Subaru Fleet.
PS: Yes I've driven it, and it's nice, but it's not a "Holy crap I gotta sell my caddy and take a pension loan to get this car".
#18 of 75 Re: 2010 Subaru Legacy 3.6 R [paisan]
Oct 09, 2009 (9:15 am)
Well, that's a SHO, plus it's very heavy so it's not exactly a barn burner.
#19 of 75 Re: 2010 Subaru Legacy 3.6 R [ateixeira]
Oct 09, 2009 (11:10 am)
That is a nice looking torque curve, and as Juice said that is what is important. HP is simply a calculated number derived from the torque produced. The only real things that matter to a "driver" are the torque, the gearing, and the vehicle weight... and of course suspension tuning.
If Subaru wanted to make this more of a performance vehicle they would have left the Tribeca gearing in place. Instead they went for more balance and fuel economy.
#20 of 75 Re: 2010 Subaru Legacy 3.6 R [bigfrank3]
Oct 09, 2009 (11:15 am)
Wonder what the EcoBoost torque curve is like?
Great engine, BTW. Gobs of power and the turbo is actually tuned to run on Regular octane.
Out of the Big 3, I think Ford is in the best position. No wonder they didn't have to declare bankruptcy.
Having said that, let's see EcoBoost at lower price levels.
#21 of 75 EcoBoost torque curve
Oct 09, 2009 (11:19 am)
I'm not buying it, but the claims are it is flat as a pancake:
#22 of 75 Re: EcoBoost torque curve [ateixeira]
Oct 09, 2009 (11:23 am)
I agree. When you can draw HP and torque curves with a ruler it makes them suspect.
#23 of 75 Re: EcoBoost torque curve [bigfrank3]
Oct 09, 2009 (11:31 am)
The 3.6R's was done on a dyno and then smoothed out (all you gotta do is show the moving average)
Ford's looks more like their goal - not an actual measured result.