Last post on Apr 10, 2013 at 10:32 AM
You are in the Chevrolet Volt
What is this discussion about?
Chevrolet Volt, Electric Cars, Sedan
#93 of 140 Re: The electric cost? [larsb]
by PFFlyer@Edmunds HOST
Oct 25, 2010 (2:31 pm)
Has nothing at all to do with blame. It's just simple supply and demand. The quantification is simply going to be the increased load, which can be measured. It's not a conspiracy to punish EV's, just a consequence that nobody seems to want to see.
We're about to go through deregulation of electric rates here in PA because forcing "competition" didn't work. A few years back, they gave everyone a choice of electric companies to use. You would have had to be an idiot to not choose the company with the lowest rates. Well, SURPRISE, as I said at the time, there was no way that company would have the capacity to supply everyone who might choose to get their power from them. So what's the company to do? They have to buy the more expensive power from the other companies to meet the demand. Do you think they're going to sell that power to customers at a loss?
Now the government is telling me forced competition didn't work. I'm SHOCKED I tell ya.
So pardon me for getting edgy when people start talking about how adding demand to the grid isn't really going to affect anything. Electric power is a commodity just like unleaded gas. And gas does a pretty good job of fluctuating around times of increased demand like holiday weekends and summer driving season, right?
#94 of 140 Re: The electric cost? [pf_flyer]
Oct 25, 2010 (2:39 pm)
Well, again, you make some good points.
But I fall back on the unanswered question:
HOW ON EARF are the utility companies going to be able to measure, and definitively quantify, the "increased usage" brought on by a few thousand EVs charging at night?
And at what point do they want to use that as an excuse to raise rates?
#95 of 140 Re: The electric cost? [larsb]
Oct 25, 2010 (5:02 pm)
Something you are leaving out in your thinking. Not all companies pay the same amount for electricity at any given hour. Many places in CA will bring on higher cost gas generators when the load is higher. They may get cheaper power from a coal plant in AZ for the steady load times. Then many utilities do their maintenance on generators over night. It is not like they have so many megawatts available at all times. When the sun is down the solar does not produce. When the wind dies the windmills do not produce. Yet we want electric when we hit the switch. The only way to have a stable day and night power source is with coal and nuclear. The rest are subject to down times. Backup for less than steady solar and wind costs a lot to maintain, ready to be turned on. Someone has to pay for that. Currently it is subsidized to a large extent by the government. That is not sustainable energy.
#96 of 140 Re: The electric cost? [larsb]
Oct 25, 2010 (7:48 pm)
HOW...are the utility companies going to be able to measure, and definitively quantify, the "increased usage" brought on by a few thousand EVs charging at night?
They're not. The impact will be so minimal, there is no point in trying. Now 20 years from now if we have 40 million electric vehicles on the road, then you'll see a blip on the radar screen. A small blip at that. U.S. electric generating capacity is on the order of thousands of billions of kWh. We're talking quadrillions of watts available.
I live in the midwest where a manufacturing plant closes it's doors and moves production to China or Mexico or India or Taiwan or somewhere almost every day. One small plant closing opens up thousands of mWh of capacity, that's millions of kWh. 10,000 Chevy Volts all re-charging at the same time only pull 40 mWh tops. It's next to nothing.
Until tens of millions of these vehicles are on the road, it's a drop in the bucket, and even then it will be far under 0.01% of our nation's electric consumption.
Read more here:
#97 of 140 Re: The electric cost? [dodgeman07]
Oct 26, 2010 (4:38 am)
That is a good link. Something else to take into consideration. Power companies are in the business of providing electricity for a profit. The more the demand the more they will make. The oil companies would be the losers.
PHEVs will have to come down in price to overcome the negatives presented by the Volt.
#98 of 140 Re: The electric cost? [gagrice]
Oct 26, 2010 (7:50 am)
Interesting story (no A/C from 5-8pm). The afternoon sun feels hottest.
Again, this makes the idea of a timer for charging all the more appealing. I'm sure GM has taken that in to consideration.
Can't you use your iPod to check the battery level? Or was that for the Leaf?
Nov 29, 2010 (1:03 pm)
If you committed to purchasing or leasing a Chevy Volt or Nissan Leaf, a reporter wants to interview you. Please email predmunds.com no later than Friday, December 3, 2010 and include your daytime contact information including a few words on your decision to get your new vehicle.
Nov 06, 2008 (10:13 am)
DETROIT (Reuters) - General Motors Corp is pressing ahead with investment in a range of electric vehicles beyond its Chevy Volt even as the automaker slashes spending in other areas, sources with knowledge of the plan said...
The electric-powered vehicles under development at GM include plug-ins for GM's luxury Cadillac brand, its Opel brand in Europe and a Chevy-branded vehicle with SUV styling, one of the sources said.
#102 of 140 Current technology VS pie in the sky (rant)
Mar 02, 2009 (12:36 pm)
Forgive me, this has been piling up inside me for-- years. Today, I watched T Boone Pickens going on and on about wind power and natural gas. I have read about plug in's, Hybrids and such, Hydrogen cell, natural gas, Bio fuels, wind power and solar power.
Let's keep it simple. I will assume we all know the basic concepts, benefits and drawbacks of each form of providing usable power. I have read, more than once and heard that if we were to convert every square inch of available space to solar and/or wind power, we still couldn't meet more than 20% of this countrys energy needs.
We talk about electric vehicles. Plug ins. We talk about Hybrids. Both have, currently, severe drawbacks. The plug ins drawback is-- the plug. The Hybrid (aside from the manufacturing process and accompanying pollution) is that it runs on the gas motor whenever you turn on the heater, run on the expressway or, (for now) turn on the air conditioner.
At the risk of throwing away a chance to be wealthy for my idea-- which I cannot believe is "my" idea alone-- why can't we make an electric car that runs on batteries, with a kerosene furnace for heat (the VW 412 had it in the early 70's. it ran off gasoline from the gas tank) and a RV camper refrigerator style air conditioner?
But, I'm not done.
California already has a problem with brown outs when everyone kicks on the home air conditioners. Whats going to happen when everyone gets home from work and plugs in ther Chevy Volt at 5PM?
How far can you go in a Chevy Volt? What if you want to take a 600 mile trip? What do you do, stop and plug it in for 4 hours?
Imagine this: Your driving along on the expressway, the volt meter shows you are getting low. Up ahead, you see a gas station. You exit the expressway, pull into the gas station and, instead of pulling up to the gas pump, you pull up to a long rack that stands next to a wind generator and topped off with a solar panel.
An attendant comes out. You throw a positive lock switch. Your electric car is now only powerd by a low voltage battery that keeps the computer, radio memory and instrument cluster powered up.
You reach down and pull a lever-- just like the lever you pull to release your trunk or hood. The attendant unplugs the battery pack, flips the latches holding the battery pack in place and attaches a hook to the pack strap. Using an electric hoist, he lifts out the battery pack, swings it over to an open slot in the rack, sides it onto the rack rollers and shoves it back with a clunk. A green light next to that slot starts flashing green. The connection is made, the battery pack is getting re-charged.Then he takes that hook, walks over to another slot in the rack, attaches the hook to a battery pack with a solid green light, pulls out a fully charged pack, sits it in your car, latches the battery pack tightly in place, reconnects the plugs and slams your hood shut. He then walks to your window, takes your $20.00 credit card or cash. You flip that positive lock switch in your car, your instrument cluster lights up and tells you you are good to go and you're off! As technology improves, you might be able to go 200 or 300 miles before you need to get another pack.
Got a big SUV or high performance car? Well, you might need to buy two or three battery packs. That's the price you pay for your big SUV or hot rod car! For most of us, in a sub compact size car, like a Corolla, Focus or Civic, one pack is enough-- thank you very much! When you do get home, you plug in your electric car to a solar powered charging station or the house current, just to "top off the tank" so to speak.
The one thing that needs to change is-- all manufacturers will need to standardize the battery pack and the receptacle. They do it now for fuel tank fill necks, it wouldn't be hard at all.
Think of it along the lines of a barbecue propane tank exhange or a welding torch tank exhange-- no different.
New technology? I'm all for it. But, before we go jumping into new technology with no certain outcome, why don't we use what we know works? This would work. Battery packs avialable at gas stations. Recharged with solar cells or wind turbines-- or, right off the grid. Got an old gas powered car? Buy gas. Got an electric car? Exhange a battery pack!
A plain old, current technology battery pack and one, two or four current technology electric motors could be installed in an existing body vehicle, take you at least 100 miles and be-- of all things-- PRACTICAL!! And, it wouldn't cost $40K or require years and millions of dollars worth of R & D.
If Ford comes out with a new electric motor that has more power and better range, whats the difference between that and trading in your old OHV gas guzzler V8 for a new 4 cylinder DOHC?
If new battery packs come out that last longer with more power, whats the difference between that and buying premium gas or, (for those of you that remember) the switch over from leaded to unleaded fuel? Until the old style batterys have worn out and are no longer available, you get a choice. heck, they could discount them for us cheapskates that would pay $10.00 to go 100 miles rather than $20.00-$25.00 to go 250 miles with the new type battery pack.
What's stopping this from happening? Technology? No-- we have it. Cost? The gas station owners will see the writing on the wall and invest in the "pack rack" and charging system. Just like they invested in gas pumps and storage tanks out in front of their blacksmith shops in the early 1900's.
I have looked, I have asked. No one seems to be able to tell me why this isn't feasable and do-able in a very short time. Maybe some one here can.
That's why I'm posting this-- I gotta know! Am I a visionary or am I just simple minded?
Thanks for letting me rant. I just had to do it.