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Is the Volt really a "Hybrid" or not?

140 messages,  Last post on Apr 10, 2013 at 11:32 AM

You are in the Chevrolet Volt Forum.

What is this discussion about? Chevrolet Volt, Electric Cars, Sedan

Messages Page 9 of 14

#80 of 140 Re: The electric cost? [larsb] by ateixeira

Oct 25, 2010 (11:15 am)

Replying to: larsb (Oct 25, 2010 11:11 am)
I had a concern, too, when not too long ago Cali had rolling black-outs, but the point about most charging going on overnight is a good one.
 
I think it would make sense to have timers for them, though. It's not like you get home at 6pm and wait until midnight to plug it in, most would forget.
 
There should (probably will) be a way to program it to charge at a specific time, say, midnight to 6am.

#81 of 140 Re: The electric cost? [ateixeira] by larsb

Oct 25, 2010 (11:20 am)

Replying to: ateixeira (Oct 25, 2010 11:15 am)
That's a concern for sure, but my take on that is that after about the 2nd time someone forgets to plug their EV in when they get home, they will take measures to make sure they don't forget anymore. Like setting an alarm or alert on their phone or something.
 
And yes, I bet the cars will allow for "timer charging" at some point. Good thought.

#82 of 140 Re: Comparing lease costs... [ateixeira] by gagrice

Oct 25, 2010 (11:54 am)

Replying to: ateixeira (Oct 25, 2010 9:24 am)
Question is - can you get the $7500 credit on a lease?
 
The way I read the IRS take on the subject, the person leasing does not get the credit unless GM takes it off the price and claims it for them selves. Which is kind of the way I read their $350 lease offer.
 
In addition to certification, the following requirements must be met to qualify for the credit:
● You are the owner of the vehicle. If the vehicle is leased,
only the lessor and not the lessee, is entitled to the credit;
 
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f8834.pdf

#83 of 140 Re: Comparing lease costs... [gagrice] by ateixeira

Oct 25, 2010 (12:07 pm)

Replying to: gagrice (Oct 25, 2010 11:54 am)
Thanks.
 
OK, so no such thing as a free lunch, as expected.
 
Back to my math, I'd have to save about $7 a day on gas, which is not possible given the 40 mile range.
 
So it'll cost more than the bigger Cruze that it's (loosely) based on pretty much no matter what.

#84 of 140 Re: Comparing lease costs... [ateixeira] by gagrice

Oct 25, 2010 (12:18 pm)

Replying to: ateixeira (Oct 25, 2010 12:07 pm)
The only reason I can see to buy or lease the Volt is to look green. Even if you are not. Kind of like De Caprio driving a Prius to be seen and flying a Gulf Stream as his main transportation.

#85 of 140 Re: Comparing lease costs... [ateixeira] by larsb

Oct 25, 2010 (12:25 pm)

Replying to: ateixeira (Oct 25, 2010 12:07 pm)
Well, actually it is a free lunch.
 
If you do not buy the Volt, you still get a lower lease payment because GM is getting the $7500. Your payment would be far higher than $350 is they were passing the rebate on to you.
 
So it's a win-win for GM and the Volt driver (whether or not you buy or lease) and a lose-lose for the taxpayers who are funding the $7500 rebate.

#86 of 140 Re: Comparing lease costs... [larsb] by ateixeira

Oct 25, 2010 (1:07 pm)

Replying to: larsb (Oct 25, 2010 12:25 pm)
Good point.
 
If you buy, I think the residuals on these will be a HUUUUUGE gamble, as we really have no idea at all what they'll be worth 5 years from now.
 
If it flops, values will plunge.
 
If they're a hit, manufacturers will make huge improvements on batteries and other technologies, and people will want to buy the new and improved ones.
 
How many people do you know who are looking for Gen I Priuses used? Nobody? That's what I thought.
 
That's why the lease makes sense, to mitigate risks.

#87 of 140 Re: The electric cost? [larsb] by pf_flyer HOST

Oct 25, 2010 (1:21 pm)

Replying to: larsb (Oct 25, 2010 11:11 am)
I don't think it matters WHEN the charging will take place, as it's charging that is not taking place now. It's a new load on the grid. Yes, it's true that it's not going to be a lot of vehicles for now, but if numbers increase it IS going to affect power rates, and not just for EV owners.

#88 of 140 Re: The electric cost? [pf_flyer] by larsb

Oct 25, 2010 (1:42 pm)

Replying to: pf_flyer (Oct 25, 2010 1:21 pm)
I'm not sure I agree.
 
At what level can the utility companies "blame" any increase in usage on EV charging?
 
5,000 EVs sold?
 
10,000 EVs sold?
 
5 % increase in electric usage?
 
10 % increase in electric usage?
 
15 % increase in electric usage?
 
And how would they even be able to quantify that?
 
How is increased usage not just a function of more people owning more electronic devices, which are becoming ubiquitous these days - iPads, iPhones, laptops. Just about every level of economic classifications in the USA now have multiple electronic devices in the family.
 
How much increased usage can be attributed to population growth?
 
How much is increased cooling/heating loads?
 
I just think there are far too many "unknowns" at this juncture for the utility companies to say ANYTHING about increased usage.
 
I think the ONLY WAY they could attribute any increases in load to EV charging is in the cities where the Volt and Leaf are sold first, and ONLY by measuring nighttime usage in those areas.
 
But then again - If they see a 3% increase in nighttime usage, how can they attribute that directly to EV charging anyway?

#89 of 140 Re: The electric cost? [pf_flyer] by ateixeira

Oct 25, 2010 (1:46 pm)

Replying to: pf_flyer (Oct 25, 2010 1:21 pm)
Didn't the rolling black-outs occur during peak use periods? In other words, during business hours?
 
I don't think the Volt will add much burden to the grid because everyone's going to charge them at night. Especially since it has the gas engine to extend range.
 
The Leaf and other pure electrics may use charging stations during the day, and indeed that could be a valid concern if the grid is already at capacity.

Messages Page 9 of 14

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