Article Comments- 2010 Lexus HS 250h Full Test

67 messages, Last post on Nov 25, 2009 at 5:38 PM

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What is this discussion about? Lexus HS 250h, Hybrid Cars, Sedan

2010 Lexus HS 250h Full Test and Video - Bottom Line: Drives like a Lexus, only it happens to be a hybrid.(more)

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#55 of 67 Re: Lexus gives mixed messages [twinb] by sjohnson11 Oct 17, 2009 (5:19 am)
Replying to: twinb (Oct 16, 2009 9:06 pm) Twin, this automobile was in development long before the economy tanked. What was Lexus supposed to do, spend millions developing a car, and then not release it because the economy went south?
#56 of 67 Re: Doesn't look very Lexus to me [larsb] by butchfoote Oct 18, 2009 (1:20 pm)
Replying to: larsb (Oct 14, 2009 7:42 am) Thanks, that was cute. In fact, "presence" is why people spend 25% to 50% more for the very same underlying vehicle in slightly different packaging. The 2010 Lexus HS 250h is a box, shorter, taller and skinnier than the Camry Hybrid, and not very "svelte". That's why I think it's a bomb from a "presence" point of view. Yep, it's a Lexus, but nope it doesn't look like it ought to be. Do you think that Toyota's costs to build the 2010 Lexus HS 250h are substantially higher than the Camry Hybrid? Of course not. But I think the salesboys love the fact that there' over $3K difference between the invoice and monroney MSRP on the 2010 Lexus HS 250h and have customers buffooned into thinking that it's worth even the invoice price. Replies to this message: bvdj84 (Oct 23, 2009 5:51 am) butchfoote (Oct 24, 2009 3:13 pm)
#57 of 67 Re: Doesn't look very Lexus to me [butchfoote] by bvdj84 Oct 23, 2009 (5:51 am)
Replying to: butchfoote (Oct 18, 2009 1:20 pm) I think Lexus might find that the car is a bit overpriced. If you offer a hybrid, you must offer it at a price that makes practical sense. Think about when the car itself will start to pay for itself. People looking for a true hybrid, might not want to spend this much on one. I only looked at the pics via ebay and I can say that it doesn't look all that impressive. Just your basic car. Toyota is looking a bit odd anyway. Replies to this message: butchfoote (Oct 24, 2009 3:13 pm)
#58 of 67 Re: Doesn't look very Lexus to me [bvdj84] by butchfoote Oct 24, 2009 (3:13 pm)
Replying to: bvdj84 (Oct 23, 2009 5:51 am) At the 40K price point this isn't about "practical sense", not since you can get a Prius for 20-something. The buyers for these vehicles are the same ones papering their roofs with solar panels, even though the payback is beyond their grandkids. People are going to buy this car because it cost so much, and because others can't.
#59 of 67 Toyota v Lexus Debate Lives On by tambaydriver Oct 26, 2009 (6:01 am)
It has been interesting reading the comments about the new Lexus HS. Oddly, many of the less than favorable comments are from those that have not actually driven the vehicle. Goodness, some have commented without even seeing the car in person. Since this is a blog about the review article I suppose all those comments are valid. Simply put, if you believe there is no discernible difference between a Camry and an ES350, you would have a hard time justifying the value of any Lexus. If however, you are considering a Lexus vs an Infinity, Acura, or even a Mercedes (okay, perhaps throw in the Cadillac too) than the HS is a valid choice to add to your consideration set. Speaking from the latter perspective, the HS drove extremely well, had eco features that I valued beyond the obvious, retained a level of luxury comparable to its competitors and namesake alike, and we bought it. Averaging 31 MPG on regular gas in a car with brand cache, superior service, and is environmentally friendly? That's a good thing. When considering the lux brands only offer an efficient diesel (that cost more than the HS) from BMW or Mercedes, the HS fills an underserved niche. It does so in typical Lexus fashion. That too is a good thing. Just as an ES350 is not a Camry, the HS is not a Prius; my opinion anyway. I suppose the debate lives on.
#60 of 67 HS Lives Up To Its Pedigree by ronhs Oct 27, 2009 (7:53 pm)
Few car makers have achieved the engineering, design, and quality build success of Lexus. Lexus has consistently set the bar for others to emulate when it comes to cutting edge technology, driveability, comfort, and luxury. The HS lives up to this heritage and more. Having been fortunate to have owned other Lexus automobiles, to include the original LS, an SC 300, an ES, two RX SUVs, and a GS 300, the HS has the same level of excellence as these others, and more importantly takes automotive technology to a new level. Having driven it for a little over 1,000 miles, it has performed flawlessly. Having achieved over 41 mpg on the open road (35 mpg on average), it has proven fun to drive, super comfortable, responsive, and predictable, as you would expect Lexus to be. Car enthusiasts have been willing to "pay the extra bucks" for this level of quality and engineering. Lexus simply delivers and this car is no exception. While others on this forum have not been fans of its styling, the HS continues to turn heads on the open road, parking lots, and with valets, often generating favorable comments about its gentle curves, open stance, and atypical hybrid looks. That said, styling responses are entirely subjective and whats most important is how it affects your senses. It simply works for me. I have owned other cars to include Toyota, Honda, Acura, Mercedes, and Volvo. These have all been nice cars in their own rights, but they simply do not compare with the overall value, driving experience and satisfaction that Lexus represents. Take an HS out for a "long spin". It should make you smile... Replies to this message: butchfoote (Nov 01, 2009 6:34 am)
#61 of 67 Re: HS Lives Up To Its Pedigree [ronhs] by butchfoote Nov 01, 2009 (6:34 am)
Replying to: ronhs (Oct 27, 2009 7:53 pm) I think I agree with your assessment of Lexus' achievements in the quality of their engineering and build success. They can definitely reproduce in manufacturing what they design. Their ability to make cars with very low levels of defects is unmatched. To me, Lexus is all about refinement, not innovation. They refine their production system to eliminate defects. I don't think of them taking "automobile technology" to a new level. They take the best existing technology and insure that it works right for their customers. However, the process of orchestrating suppliers, employees and assembly infrastructure is a design constraint. Like Toyota, Lexus builds around "platforms" of engines, transmissions, and chassis parameters. This includes vehicle dynamics control systems, safety systems, interior designs, etc. It produces a "if we can't build it, we won't" selection criteria for designs. Because of this, I feel that Lexus has much lower model diversity than say BMW or Mercedes. There's no BMW M - series, no MB AMG for those that want both the high-end styling and decor common in this price range along with significant performance potential. When you shop for a Lexus they are available on in zip-code specific packages distributed by the parent company across the U.S. At BMW and MB, you can "order" a car to fit your specific desires. This is one of the reasons that BMW and MB have much worse individual defect levels on their products. It's hard to get zero defects in low quantity build operations with a lot of hand-made attention to detail. All that being said, the new HS still looks like a cross between a Honda Civic and a Ford Fusion. It only turns heads when people notice it and go "That's a Lexus?" in surprise. And if you do an Edmunds car comparison between the HS and the Ford Fusion, you'll find their specs virtually identical, even though the Ford is roomier inside and has a much larger cruising range. The Ford is about $7,200 less expensive. It will be interesting to see how the quality scores come in on the HS. Ford is improving while Lexus is getting a bit rusty. The GS AWD got a negative review at Consumer report.
#62 of 67 And conservation is a problem because? by edwardsf Nov 03, 2009 (3:35 pm)
So Rohns has bought the car, driven the car and talked to people who have observed the car. Yet Butchfoote, who indicates he has not done any of the above, says Rohns is wrong anyway. Sorry, Butch, but I am gonna go with the guy that actually owns and drives the car. Also, I have not been on this site in a while and I marvel at how reactionary its commenters are. There seem to be so many comments disparaging people for choosing a slightly less polluting lifestyle, as if that were some treasonous thing when in fact it is quite responsible. The Saudis and Iranians profit from oil, not from conservation. On this particular thread, the comments saying that the HS is simply a Corolla show this reactionary, ill informed nature. The Lexus is a hybrid. And it is a SULEV under California's regulatory regime. That means that 1) it has super low CO2 emissions and 2) has super low smog emissions. The Corolla doesn't. And the Corolla does not have toxic free and recycled interior materials as the HS does. And neither does the Prius. But more important, the Prius and the Corolla are are noisy subcompacts with spartan interiors. The HS is a very quiet vehicle with a very nice interior (well, at least according to most of the people who have looked at it....). No, not as nice as the $55,000 GS but still. The only comparison that should be made is between the Camry H to HS. And indeed, it sounds like those two, like the regular Camry and ES, have some similarities. So I am really interested in hearing from more people like the guy who owns the Camry and compared the two. Even, 'gasp,' driven the two.
#63 of 67 Has anyone regotiated price on HS250h by sunrom1 Nov 03, 2009 (5:52 pm)
I have tried to negotiate price on this model with dealers around my place but no one want to go below MSRP. Looks like they are operating a cartel!! I would not think that anyone in their right mind would pay for MSRP for a car in this market. I am based out of MN. Replies to this message: hs250 (Nov 07, 2009 8:14 am) tambaydriver (Nov 07, 2009 9:06 am) mikejaret (Nov 13, 2009 4:46 pm)
#64 of 67 Re: Has anyone regotiated price on HS250h [sunrom1] by hs250 Nov 07, 2009 (8:14 am)
Replying to: sunrom1 (Nov 03, 2009 5:52 pm) I leased one 2 days ago from the Lease Retention Manager at my Local Lexus Dealer. I got $1000 above Dealer Invoice - which was about $2400 off MSRP...plus they are paying for a little ding on the GS300 I turned in (leased). So far I have driven it 15 miles - I am not seeing 35 MPG yet....oddly 17 so far - but I am taking it out for about 15 miles today and I'm sure I will start to see the mpgs.