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G. Voyager/G. Caravan EPA is 18, NOT 19! Don't miss out Cash for Clunker!

16 messages,  Last post on Jul 30, 2009 at 4:03 AM

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#1 of 16 G. Voyager/G. Caravan EPA is 18, NOT 19! Don't miss out Cash for Clunker! by pragmatist1 Jun 24, 2009 (3:53 pm)
The government EPA website (www.fueleconomy.gov) does not list the Grand Caravan and Grand Voyager separately from the Voyager and the Caravan. The government is incorrectly assuming that they have the same combined mileage, but the Grands have a combined EPA of 18, thus making them eligible for Cash for Clunkers ($4500 trade in value toward a new car!). Those who have old Grand Caravans/Grand Voyagers should email fueleconomyornl.gov and request that they correct the information on the government website ASAP so that we will be able to take advantage of Cash for Clunkers Replies to this message: str1der (Jul 10, 2009 6:54 am) pragmatist1 (Jul 10, 2009 8:17 am) str1der (Jul 14, 2009 7:45 am) and 2 more...
#2 of 16 Letter to fueleconomy.gov by arquiol Jun 24, 2009 (5:34 pm)
Here is the letter that I just sent to the fueleconomy.gov website Anyone else interested in this should also send a letter to hopefully get this straightened out.   These cars are not listed on your website and I am concerned because I want to take advantage of the Cash for Clunkers incentive. These vehicles are identical to the Chrysler Town and Country in that they have a third row seat and are significantly larger than the standard Caravan/Voyager. Edmunds.com, Consumer Reports, and carpoint. com all list the Dodge Grand Caravans and Plymouth Grand Voyagers as having an epa rating of 18mpg and are thus eligible for the Cash for Clunkers incentives.   Could you please clarify this issue at least by posting the fuel economy for these vehicles on your website.   Thanks   Jason Hamilton
#3 of 16 Re: G. Voyager/G. Caravan EPA is 18, NOT 19! Don't miss out Cash for Clunker! [pragmatist1] by str1der Jul 10, 2009 (6:54 am)
Replying to: pragmatist1 (Jun 24, 2009 3:53 pm) Did you ever find out anything? I'm in the same boat. I have a 2000 Grand Caravan with the 3.3L FWD engine. I was all ready to buy a new hybrid not it looks like I'm screwed. Replies to this message: pragmatist1 (Jul 10, 2009 8:17 am) str1der (Jul 14, 2009 7:45 am) rocky53 (Jul 15, 2009 8:13 pm) and 1 more...
#4 of 16 Re: G. Voyager/G. Caravan EPA is 18, NOT 19! Don't miss out Cash for Clunker! [str1der] by pragmatist1 Jul 10, 2009 (8:17 am)
Replying to: str1der (Jul 10, 2009 6:54 am) I finally wrote my congressman for help, and I suggest you do the same. I then quickly got a reply from fueleconomy and NHTSA, but it was vague and non-committal, didn't say they'd do anything about it, and they haven't done anything yet. I think they think I'm a nut-case. Email your congressman, emphasizing that he likely has thousands of constituents who own these old Grand Caravans and Grand Voyagers who are going to miss out on this program because NHTSA and fueleconomy.gov won't fix their error. Replies to this message: str1der (Jul 14, 2009 7:45 am) rocky53 (Jul 15, 2009 8:13 pm) pragmatist1 (Jul 16, 2009 1:51 am)
#5 of 16 Re: G. Voyager/G. Caravan EPA is 18, NOT 19! Don't miss out Cash for Clunker! [pragmatist1] by str1der Jul 14, 2009 (7:45 am)
Replying to: pragmatist1 (Jul 10, 2009 8:17 am) Well I've pretty much written to eveyone I can think of but I'm not getting any responses. This is really ticking me off because I'm kind of in a holding pattern and can't get the ball rolling until I get an answer. Replies to this message: rocky53 (Jul 15, 2009 8:13 pm) pragmatist1 (Jul 16, 2009 1:51 am)
#6 of 16 Re: G. Voyager/G. Caravan EPA is 18, NOT 19! Don't miss out Cash for Clunker! [str1der] by rocky53 Jul 15, 2009 (8:13 pm)
Replying to: str1der (Jul 14, 2009 7:45 am) I finally received a reply from FuelEconomy.gov admitting there is an error but "passing the buck" to Chrysler Corp. stating the following... "We have consulted the EPA and their counterparts at Chrysler to determine the best way to list these vehicles. The manufacturers are only required to test one representative vehicle for each combination of loaded vehicle weight class, transmission class, and basic engine. The Voyager and Grand voyager were jointly certified, thus there is no separate fuel economy rating for your vehicle.Our website has recently been changed to reflect this. I know this disappoints you because the "Grand" version is different from the other version of the vehicle, but at the time these vehicles were jointly certified, the manufacturer had no way of knowing that a rebate system in 2009 would depend on the EPA ratings." I replied that there must exist some recourse since this unfair error/omission is going to wrongly effect potentially thousands of "Cash for Clunkers" candidates like myself. What can we do....any ideas? Replies to this message: pragmatist1 (Jul 16, 2009 1:51 am)
#7 of 16 Re: G. Voyager/G. Caravan EPA is 18, NOT 19! Don't miss out Cash for Clunker! [rocky53] by pragmatist1 Jul 16, 2009 (1:51 am)
Replying to: rocky53 (Jul 15, 2009 8:13 pm) I tried to get Chrysler to submit the info to FuelEconomy.gov about a month ago. After I hit a dead end with customer service, they suggested that I write to the CEO of Chrysler. At that point I concentrated my efforts on NHTSA and Fueleconomy.gov and my congressman, to no avail.
#8 of 16 They updated the website with incorrect info by pragmatist1 Jul 16, 2009 (3:03 am)
Well, all fueleconomy.gov did was add the Grands into the website with the same mileage as the smaller Voyagers/Caravans. I think the only thing left to do is to petition Chrysler to submit the corrected information to NHTSA and fueleconomy.gov. Replies to this message: str1der (Jul 17, 2009 9:37 am)
#9 of 16 Re: They updated the website with incorrect info [pragmatist1] by str1der Jul 17, 2009 (9:37 am)
Replying to: pragmatist1 (Jul 16, 2009 3:03 am) Man this is total BS. I guess there goes my plan to buy a new vehicle.
#10 of 16 We'll have to write to Chrysler by pragmatist1 Jul 17, 2009 (9:57 am)
It is pretty disgusting. Obviously, 10 yrs ago, in order to make it look like their minivans had better gas mileage overall, Chrysler only reported the mileage for the smaller non-Grand voyagers and Caravans. Now, when it's going to make a difference for a lot of people (after all, many more Grands were sold than the smaller vehicles), the NHTSA is refusing to recognize the difference in mileage. Of course, since Chrysler had no smaller version of the Town and Country, the mpg for the Grands is the same as that of the Town and Country, namely, 16/22/18. The only thing left to do is to write to the following at Chrysler:   Bob Nardelli, Chairman of Board of Management   James Press, President and CEO   Tom Lasorda, Chief Operating Officer   all at PO Box 21-8004, Auburn Hills, MI 48321   and ask them to please report the correct mpg (16/22/18) for the Grands to the NHTSA/fueleconomy.gov, and hope that they'll do it in time for us to participate in the program. Replies to this message: str1der (Jul 22, 2009 9:49 am) rocky53 (Jul 22, 2009 3:33 pm)

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