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Smart Shopper Cash for Clunkers - Does it Work for You?
2647 messages, Last post on Oct 01, 2009 at 6:33 PM
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I Traded My Clunker and Bought a....?
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Replying to: berri (Sep 25, 2009 2:18 pm) Because demand went up, and supply went down. Supply and demand always applies.
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>> dollars to trade in your old "Clunker" (interesting choice of words)? >> Well, >> let's see who got the best of that "deal"..... >> >> If you traded in a clunker worth $3500, you got >> $4500 off for an apparent "savings" of $1000. You could have gotten >> $3,500 >> if you had just traded the car in. So you really are $1,000 ahead >> (depending on your clunker's value) at this point. Not too bad... >> >> However, you WILL have to pay taxes on the $4500 >> come April 15th(something that no auto dealer will tell you). If you are >> in >> the 30% tax bracket, you will pay $1350 on that $4500. >> >> So, rather than save $1000, you will actually pay an >> extra $350. to the feds. In addition, you traded in a car that was most >> likely paid for. Now you have 4 or 5 years of payments on a car that you >> did >> not need, trading in a "clunker" that was costing you less to run than >> the >> payments that you will now be making. Even if you save $1,000. dollars a >> year in gas due to better mileage, you're still gonna be in the red for >> five >> years....hello? >> >> But wait, it gets even better: you also got ripped >> off by the dealer. For example, the month before the "cash for clunkers" >> program started, every dealer in LA was selling the Ford Focus with >> all >> the goodies including A/C, auto transmission, power windows, etc for >> $12,500. because competition was stiff due to poor sales from the stalled >> economy. >> >> When "cash for clunkers" came along, they stopped >> discounting them and instead sold them at the list price of $15,500. So, >> you paid $3000 more than you would have the month before. Honda, Toyota >> , >> and Kia played the same list price game that Ford and Chevy did. Now >> let's >> do the math... >> >> You traded in a car worth: $3500 >> >> You got a discount of: $4500 >> --------- >> >> Net so far +$1000 >> >> But you have to pay: $1350 in taxes on >> the $4500 >> >> -------- >> Net so far: -$350 (that's >> minus....in the red) >> >> And you paid: $3000 more than >> the car was selling for the month before >> ---------- >> >> Net Loss: -$3350 >> >> We could also add in the additional taxes (sales >> tax, state tax, dealer prep, etc.) on the extra $3000 that you paid for >> the >> car, along with the Five years of interest on the car loan; but let's >> just >> stop here while you kick yourself. Suffice it to say that those costs >> will >> be much higher than any savings you get from "better mileage". >> >> So who actually made out on the deal? FEDZILLA >> collected taxes on the car along with taxes on the $4500 they "gave" you. >> The car dealers made an extra $3000 or more on every car they sold along >> with the kickbacks from the manufacturers and the loan companies. >> Manufacturers got to dump lots of cars they could not give away the month >> before. Lots of good or repairable used cars got taken off the market, >> crushed and sold as scrap metal to (ready for this?) CHINA! (Look it >> up...)And the poor consumer got saddled with even more debt that they >> cannot >> afford. >> >> FEDZILLA'S merry men (who promised that people >> making less than $250,000. would pay "not one red cent more in taxes") >> will >> make millions in new tax revenues after convincing Joe Consumer that he >> was >> getting $4500 in "free" money from the "government" In fact, Joe was >> giving >> away his $3500 car and paying an additional $3350 for the privilege. >> Chicago politics gone global...with an agenda. >> >> If you find errors in this math, please let me >> know..., I'm always willing to learn new things; and if >> you took "advantage" of the Clunkers deal, I have some swamp land down in >> Florida that's for sale...  >> >> >> >>
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Replying to: euphonium (Sep 29, 2009 2:35 pm) The problem is that the clunker rebate is not considered income by the feds and probably won't be considered income for any states either. So with the first part of that email being false how can we hope to trust all the rest? You really should learn to google or read the actual rules on the cars.gov site before you post things that are blatantly false. http://www.cars.gov/faq#category-06 Is the credit subject to being taxed as income to the consumers that participate in the program? NO. The CARS Act expressly provides that the credit is not income for the consumer. back to top I can tell you that we sure didn't make an extra 3,000 dollars on every clunker we did. I doubt hardly any dealers did. Lastly why would somone clunk a car worth 3,000 real money to get 4,500? You could sell it on your own and get more then 4,500. Most of the clunkers I saw were dollar cars. Real junkers who weren't worth any where near 1,000 dollars let alone 3,000. There were a couple of trucks that I thought would be worth more as trades initially but on closer inspection they were rusty or had serious mechanical problems. Some of them had bad accidents in the past or were salvage titles. So who forwarded that email to you and where did it come from originally? Would love to see what organization generated it in the first place to see who's agenda they are trying to push by lying.
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Replying to: british_rover (Sep 29, 2009 2:41 pm) You mean you can't tell? It's from the Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy |
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Replying to: euphonium (Sep 29, 2009 2:35 pm) The same people who were so silent over the past 8 years cry like babies now. Wonderful  
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Replying to: ateixeira (Sep 29, 2009 10:25 am) C'mon ateixeira, that's simplistc thinking and I think you know it. Obviously supply and demand equilibrium is affected by the economic model involved and as competition decreases the equilibrium coefficient is less effective in response. It is also affected by outside factors such as technology changes, product innovation and government restrictions or intervention. What the government did was help dealers reduce their inventory at taxpayers expense. This allowed the dealers to reduce supply and screw customers on price, particularly galling because we paid for it! C4C was not thought out and was a waste of tax money for most everyone except the dealers and a relatively few people with clunkers. It didn't really help Detroit. Dealers are now keeping their inventories lower so there hasn't been a lot of rebound Detroit car production in response to the effort, and I believe Japan was the biggest winner in sales attributed to to C4C as well. Its one thing to use tax monies as loans to GM in order to give them time to get through BK and keep people employed, it is quite another to use our tax monies to artiifically distort supply and demand and transaction prices. Nixon tried fiddling with supply, demand and pricing. The result that Ford and Carter inherited was a disaster. IMO all C4C really accomplished was further increasing our deficit for nothing significant in return. Same goes for first time home buyer rebates and all this other nonsense. Down the road all of this easy spending deficit stuff is going to weaken the dollar, increase inflation and ultimately hurt the American economy and citizens. If you're going to spend tax dollars to supplement the economy, at least do like Roosevelt and Eisenhower and spend it on something constructive like roads and infrastructure.
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Replying to: berri (Sep 29, 2009 4:47 pm) The crisis came first. Wall Street got 100x as much money and we don't hear 1/10th of the whining about that. I guess automobiles are just more visible. I'll agree with the suggestion to improve the infrastructure, though. |
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I am up visiting my cousin in MN. He has a new Chevy HHR panel. He used a 1987 Ford van with over 200k miles. The transmission had no reverse. Dealer said no problem if you can drive it into the dealership. With all the incentives on the HHR he paid $12,500 cash OTD and really likes the little beast.
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Replying to: gagrice (Oct 01, 2009 5:50 pm)
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Replying to: fezo (Oct 01, 2009 5:59 pm) |
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