Last post on Sep 10, 2013 at 11:49 AM
You are in the Toyota Corolla
What is this discussion about?
Toyota Corolla, Steering, Sedan
#319 of 667 Re: corolla EPS [thegraduate]
Aug 05, 2010 (12:12 pm)
Actually, I believe it was only until this past decade when Toyota started introducing more luxurious trim levels beyond the LE. I remember when my family were shopping for a 4 Runner in 1998, the LE trim was the highest.
They also do not seem to label any of their vehicles CE or VE anymore and in lieu call them their BASE model. Even Honda has adopted this trim labeling scheme. I figure if you have shopped for a Toyota recently, you would be aware.
#320 of 667 Re: Corolla power steering [spikejr1]
Aug 05, 2010 (12:24 pm)
Update - The deal is nearly done. I have a mutually agreed price to sell my vehicle to the NHTSA for testing at their Vehicle Research Test Center (VRTC) in East Liberty, OH. The purchase order authorizing the NHTSA is in my hand. Agreed to sell at the lower end of private party price. Not happy, but acceptable to get rid of the problem.
Last step is a test drive Monday with their engineer on the highway when they come to pick up the vehicle. If he agrees that it's loose, wanders, drifts then he'll hand over the cashier's check. If he doesn't feel the problem is severe enough to test, then the deal is off.
I did tell him that the Toyota Experience Hotline and local dealer had no information about the EPS module to fix the steering problem. He was quite surprise since he said he had one sitting on his desk that Toyota sent him personally.
#321 of 667 Re: corolla EPS [thegraduate]
Aug 06, 2010 (7:03 am)
Heh, heh, now your getting personnal. I love my XLE and with the standard XLE features of 16-inch wheels, upgraded stereo and amenities like a sliding center armrest, wood-grain interior trim, electroluminescent gauges, keyless entry and variable intermittent wipers. Of course I added Moonroof, JBL 400 watt stereo, alloy wheels and some extra exterior trim.
#322 of 667 Re: Corolla power steering [spikejr1]
Aug 06, 2010 (7:08 am)
YEA, your Toyota Corolla free . . . . . . .
#323 of 667 TSB Number for Power Steering Computer Assembly
Aug 06, 2010 (7:59 am)
"Some customers have expressed dissatisfaction with the on-center steering feel on the 2009-2010 model year Corolla vehicles. A re-tuned Power Steering Computer Assembly has been developed to provide an alternative steering feel for these customers."
If you search you can find the actual bulletin.
#324 of 667 Re: corolla EPS [terceltom]
Aug 06, 2010 (8:49 am)
They could design a Corolla with gold plated alloy wheels and a computer inside that talked to you and had two way conversations and as long as they stuck variable assist column mounted electric steeing under the hood, the bane of people such as myself that enjoy cars that perform and handle well on the road, I would not have it..
#325 of 667 Re: TSB Number for Power Steering Computer Assembly [sjarea]
Aug 06, 2010 (9:05 am)
Some customers in addition to being dissatisfied with the on-center feel of the 2009-2010 Corollas feel dissatisfaction with not being able to make sharp accurate turns, the feeling of driving in a car that feels like it has low tires and is very sluggish in its response relative to steering input. Let's not forget the low speed wobbly feel of the steering where you turn the wheel a lot and the wheels on the car turn only a very little. How about that disconnected feel? I think the disconnected feel comes from there actually being a disconnect somewhere in the steering system between the steering wheel and wheels on the car which did not exist in what I like to call normal hydraulic assist vehicles. The inconsistent relationship between steering input and wheel movement is a symptom of that. Pardon the incorrect English but the "fix" ain't gonna fix this car. The "fix" is more of a customer service strategy than an actual fix, it is as an alternative to a recall which of course there is nothing they could do with a recall anyway. What are they going to do yank the crappy steering system out and put a decent hydraulic assist in that drives and handles well. That is of course not possible. The "fix" is an attempt to appease complainers such as myself and to satisfy the public and whatever entities such and the NHTSA and congress and show that Toyota is making some sort of "good faith" effort to do something regardless of how ineffectual it is in my opinion. Your not going to make a silk purse out of a sows ear as the old saying goes. Toyota should have demonstrated some "good faith" by not switching to these dreadful fun eliminating systems that have an enormous negative effect on car maneuverability and stability. The new Corolla with EPS is a refrigerator on wheels. The "fix" ain't gonna fix that.
#326 of 667 Re: TSB Number for Power Steering Computer Assembly [biffpreston]
Aug 06, 2010 (3:15 pm)
Thanks for the TSB number - if the NHTSA doesn't buy the vehicle on Monday, I'll be using that to get the repair done thru Toyota.
biffpreston, I understand your frustration w/ the steering - however, I don't have the same conspiracy view that Toyota (or any other company) is trying to "sell" a fix to you, me, or the government. They gain nothing by not fixing the problem in the long run.
The the complaints most of us have with the EPS are very similar to the complaints people had when hydraulic power steering came out. The hydraulic system you prefer wasn't always a joy to drive either...At first, it was too easy to steer...you couldn't fee the road...too much assist. Engineers listened and they reduced the hydraulic pressure and redesigned systems. Over time engineers learned what works for different applications...from massive trucks to sport cars. EPS will suffer the growing pains too...
And automobiles are not the only industry...for example, world class fighter jets and large commercial aircraft are increasingly "fly by wire". Airbus has ZERO control cables or hydraulic lines to the cockpit. Yep, you're flying a computer control yoke and that info is transmited to the hydraulic actuators electrically. The "feeling" a pilot gets when moving the control yoke is programed by engineers...the resistance to control imputs has to be determined. Engineers could design the control yoke to move at the touch of a finger, or require significant effort. Over the years, engineers have improved the "feel" and now pilots can't tell the difference...
Are you going to even attempt to get the TSB "fix" installed to see if their is ANY difference in handling?
One additional note you might find useful - the engineer at the NHTSA did mention to me that they were also testing a Corolla that exhibited the exact opposite of what most people on here are complaining about - that being a stiff steering feel during most driving conditions. He is drving to my home on Monday with another engineer to get a feel for that vehicle's problem, and then if he buys my Corolla, will drive it back to experience the loose steering issue. So it sounds like the EPS can be either too stiff, or too loose...
#327 of 667 Re: TSB Number for Power Steering Computer Assembly [spikejr1]
Aug 06, 2010 (5:45 pm)
What I described is not a conspiracy. I just call them like I see them. I think I'm pretty right on the money with what I said. Regardless of how badly the Corollas with EPS maneuver and handle Toyota is committed to continue to produce them. Cheap manufacturing cost of EPS system conbined with slightly increased fuel efficiency, at what cost of course, is a killer combination that they cannot resist regardless of how utterly awful the cars they churn off the assembly lines handle. I do not believe for one instant that that variable assist column mounted electric steering can ever be perfected where good tactile feedback is a possibility. Perhaps some other type of electric steering system but not variable assist. The car is being worked on now at the dealer and no I do not play on dilly dallying around with the TSB fix. You may be happier driving a Corolla with it's dull electric tiller than me.
FYI companies do all sorts of things such as what I have described above about the so called "fix". They are going to do whatever is cheapest and generates the most positive or least negative publicity. They could care less if their cars drive like garbage scowls so long as people continue to buy them. They are not in business to sell cars that drive well necessarily they are only in business to sell cars and for the greatest profit. Using the cheap to manufacture EPS allows them to bring their fleet fuel economy average up and move closer to the CAFE mandate, so they pay fewer "fines" or "fees", and it costs them a lot less than installing hydraulic assist systems.
With regards to the stiff steering Corolla. Ihave noticed that the steering is all sorts of different things depending on what speed you happen to bedriving. The steering wheel does feel stiff and sluggish sometimes and loose others. I might call it schizophrenic steering. Like I said some people might be more tolerant of driving a car that handles like the modern Corolla than I. Prius owners for example.
#328 of 667 Re: TSB Number for Power Steering Computer Assembly [biffpreston]
Aug 06, 2010 (6:26 pm)
"Some customers in addition to being dissatisfied with the on-center feel of the 2009-2010 Corollas feel dissatisfaction with not being able to make sharp accurate turns, the feeling of driving in a car that feels like it has low tires and is very sluggish in its response relative to steering input. Let's not forget the low speed wobbly feel of the steering where you turn the wheel a lot and the wheels on the car turn only a very little"
Actually Biff, I don't think your right on the money at all, in fact I think your way off base with the examples of complaints you list above of what you believe others don't like about the newest generation of Corollas. Okay, I'll give you that a small number of 2009/2010 Corolla drivers are complaining about trying to keep their car straight on the highway and are experiencing some wandering. But site me some examples of the other complaints you list above. Again, there are those of us that bought the Corolla because of this improvement of electronics over hydraulics in regard to the steering. Some of us actually test drove the Corolla first and liked what we found.
By the way, I do have gold plating on one of my my three Corollas.