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Preliminary '09 Torrent research...

4 messages,  Last post on Jun 22, 2009 at 7:30 AM

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What is this discussion about? Pontiac Torrent, Pontiac Vibe, Dodge Durango, Car Buying, Car Comparisons, Car Financing, Buying Insurance, Hatchback, SUV

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#1 of 4 Preliminary '09 Torrent research... by zathrak Apr 07, 2009 (5:57 pm)
So I will start by providing a short history and background of what I've had, done, and what I'm trying to do.   I have owned a '99 Durango, having paid 15k for it back in '01-'02 at 75,000 miles. The reason I purchased it was based almost solely on cargo capacity and utility. I was getting ready to start my 4 year college journey 2.5 hours away and would have to move in everything for the year in 1 trip. Also while in college, and being in a fraternity, I was the guy that stuffed 7 others in the Durango on social events. I have loved every minute of having this capacity and utility, but the MPG has all but ravaged me over the years and will continue to get worse. 12mpg (on the best of days) plus the countless repairs that are coming in to play after 10 years just can't continue in today's economy. This of course leads me to my search for the next vehicle.   Back in 2007, I discovered the Pontiac Torrent and fell in love with it. The clearance of the vehicle was comparable to the Durango, the cargo capacity was notable even though I have to give up the 3rd row seating. The feature rich interior however was very impressive and the ride was very smooth. The suspension was also impressive for me. Lastly, the v6 was sufficient power for my taste as I don't have a great need for a 3 second 0-60mph. Topping this off with double the mpg from what I'm used to with a fuel tank capacity of almost half that of my 24 gallon tank on the Durango is also ideal on a monetary note. On a feature-oriented end of things, I can't live without the moonroof and the premium sound system (Sun and Sound package.) Theft deterrent and the preferred package are also necessary at this point.   Having said all of that, let's move on to the active search. Because I am in the "after college transition," I wasn't in a position to go get a new vehicle, or even a used one, so instead I had to put thousands of dollars in to keeping the Durango running...even though in the end it would cost me more. I am finally to the point where I can not justifiably dump more money in to it. Recently, I began revisiting vehicles to downsize what I have and make a more economical attempt to resolve this little issue. I have went to every dealership in the area and looked at every competitor to the Torrent (including the Murano, Escape, and Vue) in an attempt to not be impulsive. I then realized that 25k was a bit too much for me to be spending right now. I also desired a better mpg than 18/24, so I began my search for a mini-torrent style utility vehicle. I have searched every option available which spanned Rouge, Yaris, Fit, Prius, and finally found that the closest next step down was a Pontiac Vibe GT. Unfortunately, the clearance of the vehicle makes me uncomfortable, the back seat is punishing, the mpg *could* and likely *should* be better, and the cargo capacity was slightly disappointing. This Vibe kick has been my last month in short. I found myself trying to make myself like the Vibe GT. Then I found the issue I was running in to was that I would need to fully load the Vibe GT which is of course the best of the best in terms of the trim itself...which lands me around 23k at the end of the day. Well now I'm back to square one where I'm back to the same price range as if I had just had the Torrent in the first place. The good news is I'm 95% happy with the base Torrent as it is. I would simply prefer leather seats ($1000 aftermarket)...actually I almost need them as cloth drives insane. Because of all of this, it seems now that I'm 1-2k difference between almost complete happiness and artificial happiness. It also seems that the big argument is that I can either complain about one of two things: a) hate the mpg of the Torrent (even though it's still double what I was getting in some instances, it's going to be the bottom of the mpg standard soon,) or b) hate the clearance, lack of cargo capacity and utility options etc. (What would you do?) At this point, I almost feel I may as well just stick with a Torrent now? The last thing that comes in to play here is that require the 0% offer from GM which of course is scheduled to end on the 30th of this month. I don't know how much longer the Durango is going to hold out before I have to repair it. I also don't know how much I trust the 0% deal to be around when I will need it (which of course drives sales.) Another thing to point out in this topic, I have debated heavily on FWD vs AWD. Living in southwest Michigan, and loving the capacity to cut through deep snow without reserve. I used AWD on the Durango frequently throughout the winters here, however I get the feeling this is because it was in fact a rear wheel drive vehicle and I needed to compensate. Do you have any preferences or words of wisdom on this trade off? I think I'd prefer slightly better mpg over AWD but I don't know for sure. Lastly, insurance...the safety of the Torrent seems to surpass the Vibe...does this mean the Torrent may prove to be a cheaper insurance rate?   Having said all of this, I have several questions/topics I would like to ask the community in hopes of getting real world responses.   1) In general, based on these preferences, would you take a Vibe GT or a Torrent (Base)?   2) MPG vs cargo utility and features: does the mpg of the Vibe GT outweigh the features and benefits of the Torrent?   3) In either case, is getting new "cheaper" than getting it used? Would you consider a used vehicle if the price made the difference? What's available in this regard these days?   4) Torrent seating: I would need leather I do believe and I don't need the engine/motor of the GXP, so I'm assuming aftermarket would be the way to go...however I found that this would likely cost at least $1000...alternatives...justified...cheaper to get GXP...?   5) 0% dealings: any speculation as to what will happen with this deal? Any general opinions of this? Also consider other current GM incentives.   6) AWD vs FWD: Which would you prefer? Is AWD really necessary? Is the mpg gain worthwhile? How does the Torrent handle deeper snow in FWD?   7) General idea of safety on the Vibe GT vs the Torrent.   8) Insurance: Is one going to merit better/cheaper rates than the other? What are these rates typically?   9) Paint color: out of my pre-selected colors of light silver, white, or black, I feel black is the way to go. Sharp lines looks very catchy to me and I don't mind a few dirty spots. My only concern is chipping and such...any thoughts on this?   10) Chemical paint sealer: I have been hooked up with a company that will apply the chem protection to the paint for a yet to be determined amount, but will remove and replace this protection for free for 5 years...it's received very good reviews and has been around for over 25 years. Is this protection going to actually do a considerable amount of "protection (chipping, scratching, or just bird droppings...)?"   11) What happens to the trade in value Replies to this message: steve_ (Apr 09, 2009 9:43 pm) aksid (May 28, 2009 9:26 pm) kathyc2 (Jun 22, 2009 7:30 am)
#2 of 4 Re: Preliminary '09 Torrent research... [zathrak] by steve_ HOST Apr 09, 2009 (9:43 pm)
Replying to: zathrak (Apr 07, 2009 5:57 pm) I like the Vibe a lot. Is it better? Just depends on what you are looking for (and it doesn't sound like you are sold on the Vibe). Drive what you like.   It's odd, but some new cars are "cheaper" than used ones right now. link   I'm not a big leather fan, but I've heard lots of good things about aftermarket leather.   Incentives are really hard to predict. Edmunds has a Predictive TMV that can give you hints about which way prices are going.   I've had both AWD and FWD (and used both in snow country). Good winter tires will get you most places with FWD.   For insurance, try asking an agent.   Black paint? Yikes! I hope you enjoy washing and dusting your cars.   I don't even believe in waxing cars and don't think a sealant is worth it. Check out Paint and Body Maintenance & Repair for other opinions.
#3 of 4 Re: Preliminary '09 Torrent research... [zathrak] by aksid May 28, 2009 (9:26 pm)
Replying to: zathrak (Apr 07, 2009 5:57 pm) It probably late, but I do my comments: I owned Vibe 2004, base model for more then 2 years. Vibe is good car,it has never gave me any mechanical problem, but it was just a car. Torrent is different story. I loved the Torrent from the moment I saw the pictures in internet. Traded-in Vibe for Torrent 2006, AWD. Since then I am happy owner of nice car and never regret about this decision. Every day I start engine in Torrent I get a wave of excitement (even though I was two times at dealership: 1. front rotor resurfacing. 2. some hose got disconnected and brought "check engine" light on). Answering your questions: 1. Torrent is better in all instances except mpg. 2. For me better mpg does not overweight all other features of Torrent. I did not have chance to drive Vibe GT, but base Vibe is seriously underpowered, getting annoying high tone engine noise when accelerating. It could be surprise, but Torrent has much better road handling, even taking on consideration it noticeable tilt at cornering. Vibe had handling problem when road had some small bumps or patch holes: rear axle just shifted to the side. It was extremely severe at turns. 3. If you count thousands of miles your car should run per thousands of dollars you want to spend, then used cars are better in general, but if you get lemon then it could be otherwise. I would consider 2-3 years old Torrent with low mileage, but very low price ("very low" depends on car). 4. No suggestions on seats. My first priority is leather steering wheel. 5. For Vibe I had 0% financing. For Torrent GM did not have 0% for that moment, but I got really good deal on that (at least I think so). 6. Base Vibe had FWD. Torrent has AWD. I live in NYC and do not have issue with deep snow. In regular NY winter AWD helps only when I need park car at the curb after snowfall. It helps, but it is not something essential. 2006 Torrent AWD system automatically transfers torque to rear axle when feels that front axle slips. It has all good and bad features of automatic system. 7. One of the reason I bought Torrent that I wanted car with front and side airbags and good crash test ratings (when I bought Vibe I did not pay attention to that). 8. Insurance was very high for Vibe. I got the same full coverage with all same options from the same company for Torrent 1200 less! It was one of the major considerations. I did little search on why it is so and found that insurance companies accident related expanses 15% less for covering Torrent and 70% higher for covering Vibe if compared with average expanses per car. 9. I have strike blue color. Very nice, but dust and dirt very visible on it. Also when it scratched, the white primer paint is extremely in contrast to my dark blue... 10. I do just regular car wash on "as required" basis. For me overall paint quality is very good for Torrent. But it was the same with Vibe. 11. In my comparison Vibe did not dropped the price so quickly as Torrent does. But now days can affect this trend.
#4 of 4 Re: Preliminary '09 Torrent research... [zathrak] by kathyc2 Jun 22, 2009 (7:30 am)
Replying to: zathrak (Apr 07, 2009 5:57 pm) Just ran across your message, but it may be too late. I have a 06 Torrent I bought last fall as a Certified Preowned. It has AWD and got through the Northern Indiana snow without a problem. I'm used to smaller cars, and never got used to the bigger vehicle. I can't just whip into parking places like I'm used to. . Anyway, I'm thinking about replacing it with the Vibe.

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