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2011 Hyundai Sonata

5326 messages,  Last post on Feb 15, 2013 at 11:34 AM

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What is this discussion about? Hyundai Sonata, Future Vehicle, Sedan

Messages Page 15 of 533

#141 of 5326 re: [backy] by akuma

Dec 08, 2009 (12:01 am)

Replying to: backy (Dec 06, 2009 7:28 pm)
bhmr59: those "standard" features (V6, 17" alloy wheels, power seats, etc.) on the Azera are "options" on the Sonata.
 
backy: when comparing apples to apples, the price difference between the Sonata and the Azera is only about $1-2k. the Sonata fully loaded is about $29,000 MSRP while the Azera is about $32,500 MSRP. however the last generation Sonata can't be equipped with power folding mirrors (i'm not even sure if the Sonata even has folding mirrors), power adjustable pedals (these two options aren't even available on the Genesis), power sunshade, power tilt and telescoping wheel, higher premium stereo (logic 7), memory settings for the seats/steering wheel, 3.8 liter engine, tire pressure monitoring and rain sensing wipers. but both of those MSRPs won't mean anything when the new Sonata comes out for under $20k. neither the turbo nor the hybrid will be available right away, so the first batch of Sonatas will probably top out around $25-28k depending on what features are standard and what new (expensive) options are available.
 
the Azera is just an abysmal seller. the base Genesis is just a much better car than a fully loaded Azera, while the Azera is hardly better than the refreshed Sonata let alone the completely redesigned one. the Maxima and Camry have a long history; so do the Altima and the Avalon although about 3 generations less. but the Maxima/Altima and Camry/Avalon were in completely different classes when they first came out. i'll give that the Camry and Avalon were just mostly different in size, mid-sized and full-sized; the Avalon also had more standard features and was V6 only, but the original Altima was a compact car only available with an inline 4 and competed with Civics and Corollas. now, the Altima has cannibalized Maxima sales. at one point (2002-2003) the Altima was bigger than the Maxima! i'm not even sure if the Azera and Sonata (limited) are in a different class at all. making a new Azera would be like bringing back the Toyota Cressida; in a word, unnecessary.
 
i see Hyundai moving up their model lines half a class up. in other words, even though the Sonata's competitive set is with the Accord, Camry, Altima, Mazda 6, Legacy, Malibu, Fusion, i think the target set is mid-sized and full-sized, front wheeled drived, entry level luxury like the Passat CC, LaCrosse, Maxima, Taurus, ES350/Avalon and TL; $40k+ cars. likewise, i think that the new Elantra will also target the Accord, Camry, Altima, Mazda 6, Legacy, Malibu and Fusion despite competing with the Civic, Corolla, Jetta, Mazda 3 and Cruz. the Azera wasn't that much more attractive than the Avalon at $3k less with worse resale and fuel economy, but the new Sonata (and the Amanti) at $10k+ less with comparable features, much better fuel economy, and improving resale might all but kill off the Avalon except for the die hard unbelievers.

#142 of 5326 re: [akuma] by backy

Dec 08, 2009 (5:25 pm)

Replying to: akuma (Dec 08, 2009 12:01 am)
What I said that the base Sonata is about $5k less than the base Azera, and I think that is accurate.
 
By your own figures, the difference between a loaded Sonata V6 and Azera is just over $3500. And yes, Hyundai has to offer more features in the Azera to justify the higher price, otherwise there would be no reason at all for the Azera to exist.
 
The problem with the Azera is there isn't enough to differentiate it from the Sonata. But with the Sonata limited to only I4s, there is now room for differentiation, at least in the engine bay. The Azera needs a redesign of course, to keep up with the newer Genesis and brand-new Sonata.
 
I don't see the Elantra targeting the Accord, Camry, Altima, Mazda6 and other true mid-sized cars. The Accord in particular is a full-sized car in interior volume, and is a natural target for the Sonata--as is the Camry, Altima, Mazda6 et. al. The Elantra will continue to go after the Civic, Corolla, Focus, and cars of that size, but with its long-time advantage of more room for the dollar.

#143 of 5326 re: [backy] by akuma

Dec 09, 2009 (12:20 am)

Replying to: backy (Dec 08, 2009 5:25 pm)
all i'm saying is that the Azera at the moment is just a slightly fancier Sonata (the old one), just slightly. or a Sonata with a few more features and different interior and exterior styling and a couple more cubes of space. there really isn't anything superior about the Azera to the Sonata except for those aforementioned features.
 
i don't think that Hyundai is going to make a sedan with only a V6 engine available and no other engine like the Amanti. i think the V6 is only going to be used in the Genesis and some of the CUVs (Veracruz, Santa Fe), and even then it might be replaced in the next generation. Hyundai has to get to 35.5 MPG by 2016. if Hyundai can reduce weight, improve performance and fuel economy while saving money by implementing 4-cylinder turbos, and make these engines very refined, i think the V6 will no longer be used by Hyundai. the Tau V8 (supercharged in some applications) with all the money invested in it, will probably only be used as a halo engine. i'm almost certain the Genesis Coupe is going to ditch the V6 and use a more powerful GDI 4 cylinder turbo instead.
 
i don't really expect the Elantra to compete against the major mid-sizers. it's just when the Genesis sedan was engineered, they benchmarked the BMW 5-Series, Infiniti M, Lexus GS, and Mercedes E-Class. that was their "target" set according to Krafcik. their actual competitive set was Cadillac CTS, Chrysler 300M, ES350 and Pontiac G8.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjia6K0Rnqg
this is explained at about 4:00 into the half hour video.
 
the Genesis coupe was also benchmarked against the G37 coupe despite competing against the Eclipse and Mustang and later the Camaro.
 
the new Elantra will almost certainly have a version of the same GDI engine and in-house 6-speed transmission as the Sonata, and have a midsize interior like the current one (97.9 cubic feet, 112.1 total volume; for reference, the Acura RL has 99.1 cubic feet and 112.2 total volume). the interior will be upgraded as well as the technology, not unlike the new Tucson. it will also be priced thousands of dollars cheaper comparably equipped if not better equipped than the current Civic and Corolla with class leading fuel economy. i wouldn't be surprised if the base 4 cylinder versions of the Accord, Camry and Altima were compared or cross-shopped with the fully loaded versions of the new Elantra. the new Elantra will probably be a better car by most metrics (performance, features, fuel economy, engine/tranny refinement, suspension, design) than the current Sonata (4 cylinder) except for interior and cargo volume. it will just have the exterior dimensions and weight comparable to a Civic or Corolla.

#144 of 5326 re: [akuma] by backy

Dec 09, 2009 (1:29 pm)

Replying to: akuma (Dec 09, 2009 12:20 am)
I think the days of the Sonata being priced thousands less than the Camry, or the Elantra priced thousands less than the Corolla, are gone, especially when the next-gen Sonata and Elantra debut. Already for 2010, the Sonata and Elantra are priced very close to comparable Toyotas; compare, for example, a 2010 Elantra with ESC and alloys to the Corolla with ESC and alloys--the Corolla actually costs less, in terms of invoice less rebates! So get ready for a small price advantage at best, but getting a superior car in terms of power, fuel economy, interior room, and standard features.

#145 of 5326 re: [backy] by akuma

Dec 09, 2009 (2:09 pm)

Replying to: backy (Dec 09, 2009 1:29 pm)
that's why i think Hyundai might be doing their advanced benchmarking. when compared to their competitive classes, Hyundai cars aren't so cheap anymore. but when they are compared to one class above (and i think they can compare quite well actually) then they start really looking like good values again. also, other carmakers are being more aggressive with their pricing. the new Tucson looks like it compares well to CR-V and Rav 4, but i think it can be compared to the Mazda CX-7 and even the Acura RDX and Infiniti EX. i'm sure the guys at Acura and Infiniti absolutely hate being compared to Hyundai. the Tucson will need to get the GDI engine and/or turbocharged one to be truly competitive with the premium small crossovers, though.
 
well it looks like Hyundai is going to replace the Azera afterall. according to comments at hyundai-blog, it's already going through wind-tunnel testing (Hyundai sure does keep their future cars under very secret wraps) and is supposed going to be available with a GDI 4.0 V6 (which may or may not also go in the Sonata) that might make 32 MPG and possible AWD. that's news to me. if they improve the Azera as much if not more so than they did with the Sonata, they're going to have to be careful in differentiating it from the Genesis besides RWD, since the Genesis is still a long way away from redesign.
 
maybe they're going to turn the Azera into a huge full-sized car like the Crown Vic or Park Avenue or turn it into a Lincoln killer or a poor man's BMW 7 series (but with front wheel drive). maybe they're just going to make different flavors for very similar cars to get as many buyers as they can. they'll just have to do a better job than GM did with that.

#146 of 5326 re: [akuma] by backy

Dec 09, 2009 (4:45 pm)

Replying to: akuma (Dec 09, 2009 2:09 pm)
I thought the Genesis was supposed to be a "poor man's 7 Series"?

#147 of 5326 2011 sonota suspension by steven39

Dec 10, 2009 (6:59 pm)

i hope for hyundai's sake that they have solved the suspension (thunk) issues that have plagued pryor years models sonatas.i currently have a 08 sonata with this thunk issue as does many other sonata owners on this forum.

#148 of 5326 my mouth is watering by msazzyindc

Dec 10, 2009 (11:12 pm)

I am an Azera owner and the 2011 Sonata is making my mouth water, i'm excited to see it in person, I may just have to trade down.

#149 of 5326 Re: my mouth is watering [msazzyindc] by james1982

Dec 11, 2009 (7:24 pm)

Replying to: msazzyindc (Dec 10, 2009 11:12 pm)
I am an Azera owner and the 2011 Sonata is making my mouth water, i'm excited to see it in person, I may just have to trade down.
 
I still haven't seen one in person. I'm going to take my Sonata to my dealer for an oil change at some point this week, and I'm really hoping they have one in the showroom.
 
If they do, I'll snap a few pics and post them here.

#150 of 5326 January? by craigmri

Dec 12, 2009 (12:58 pm)

My dealer is saying the 2011 Sonata will be in the showrooms around the Superbowl. I cannot wait....I've decided we will either trade our Azera or veracruz in on a loaded Sonata...If they drive as good as they look they'll have a huge hit on their hands!
 
Craig

Messages Page 15 of 533

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